Re: Windows 11
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Fri Oct 29 2021 10:07 am

I'd love to switch over to pure Linux, but I have too many programs

What do you mean by "pure Linux"?

I have 6 computers here at home. 2 run Windows, 5 run various flavors of Linux, and one runs FreeBSD (pfSense), but I don't really count that as a PC I use, since it's really just functions as a router.

If I moved my two Windows PCs to Linux, I'd consider that "pure linux". Really it's just a phrase I picked up from talking to various other Sysadmin/DevOps/SREs, who say they work in a "pure linux shop"

Ah, I see. All Linux computers.. I was wondering if you meant Linux itself without any GNU tools etc.. :P

Nightfox

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Also, newer video games never run well under WINE, if at all. I just picked up the new Guardians of the Galaxy game, as of right now reports are it won't run at all under WINE (or any of the forks designed for PC Gaming).

In addition, not many of the off-the-beaten-path apps I want to use play nice with WINE, either; like ACID View or RIPtel... and they are pretty flipping simple.

ZorinOS *attempts* to make things easier, but probably works better with consumer based apps and games a lot better than the weird stuff I want to run...

The other reason I stick with Windows is because it's mindless. I can install and run whatever without having to tinker and fiddle with
things, or edit 30 different config files, or find the right library for compatability.

You know, I'm currently working with this frame.work laptop on Linux... and while I don't think I'd be happy w/ Windows - I *know* that everything would just work if I went that route...

What you say about working with nix at work kinda... resonates with me. All my other machines are nix, and just an ssh window away; JESUS, should I break down and install Windows?!?!?!?

NO!!! :P If it were MacOS, I would... but I can't goto Win.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Re: Windows 11
By: DaiTengu to MRO on Fri Oct 29 2021 09:58 am

I tried to find "Classic Start" as a standalone (Not part of NiNite), and can only come up with "Classic Shell". the Classic Shell website appears to be unresponsive for me right now.

DaiTengu

just use this https://ninite.com/classicstart/

their website is http://www.classicshell.net/
which works for me right now.

he stopped development but it still works.
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DaiTengu wrote to paulie420 <=-

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@REPLY: <61773578.17473.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
Re: Re: Windows 11
By: paulie420 to DaiTengu on
Mon Oct 25 2021 03:46 pm

I'm currently giving ZorinOS Pro an install. It, unlike ZorinOS Core, has Win/MacOS and other themes included and also has WINE *setup* for a user that might not grasp how to do that in a usable way. WINE allows you to run some, if not most, Windows applications under Linux.

It might be a good OS for you to give a try... it costs $39, but like I stated above you can try Core out for free - I think that Core still has WINE installed... just no support from the Zorin folks.

I'm pretty familiar with WINE. The ham radio applications I use on Windows don't have an equivelant counterpart under Linux, and are too complex for WINE to deal with, with serial connections audio cabling
and whatnot.

Also, newer video games never run well under WINE, if at all. I just picked up the new Guardians of the Galaxy game, as of right now reports are it won't run at all under WINE (or any of the forks designed for PC Gaming).

The other reason I stick with Windows is because it's mindless. I can install and run whatever without having to tinker and fiddle with
things, or edit 30 different config files, or find the right library
for compatability.

I spent all day dealing with Linux at work. when I'm done with work, I don't want to spend my free time dealing with it, too.

Wierd, I moved away from Windows to Linux because I didn't want to mess around with the OS all the time. Granted this was back in 2000, and I was using Windows 98, but I got tired of reinstalling Windows 98 all the time, having to wipe it, reinstal, put my configuration back the way I liked it. With Linux I wanted an OS I could install once, configure, and it would stay that way.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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Moondog wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-

No better time to ditch Windows than during a new version release.
You'll never miss it unless you're a pc gamer

My old laptop can not handle new releases of Windows 10 :( So I installed ibuntu on it, now it loads faster. 2nd gen i5 laptop with 8gb ram. Maybe I
could find a 7200 rpm laptop hard drive, but the laptop is almost 10 years ld.

Desktop computers that can game are becoming too pricey. I cant justify burning 1500 bucks on one now.


... Don't compromise your freedoms for protection.

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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Utopian Galt to Moondog on Sat Nov 06 2021 09:37 pm

Moondog wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-

No better time to ditch Windows than during a new version release. You'll never miss it unless you're a pc gamer

My old laptop can not handle new releases of Windows 10 :( So I installed ibuntu on it, now it loads faster. 2nd gen i5 laptop with 8gb ram. Maybe I could find a 7200 rpm laptop hard drive, but the laptop is almost 10 years l

Desktop computers that can game are becoming too pricey. I cant justify burning 1500 bucks on one now.

... Don't compromise your freedoms for protection.

Fun fact: a friend of mine has an old computer he intended to use for gaming, but since it can no longer cope with new games, he decided to install Linux on it and a bunch of retro emulators. He is having a blast playing old games from the 90s and beyond.

I think paying more than 1000 bucks for a computer you don't intend to use for production is hard to justify.

--
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Utopian Galt wrote to Moondog <=-

Desktop computers that can game are becoming too pricey. I cant justify burning 1500 bucks on one now.

I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3847 with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM for $175.
Added a $100 Nvidia card, think it's a GT1030, and I can get 60 FPS out of
War Thunder at medium res. 40 at high. 50 when I custom tune it based on the Nvidia optimizing app.


... Simple subtraction
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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Utopian Galt on Mon Nov 08 2021 08:28 am

Utopian Galt wrote to Moondog <=-

Desktop computers that can game are becoming too pricey. I cant justify burning 1500 bucks on one now.

I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3847 with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM for $175. Added a $100 Nvidia card, think it's a GT1030, and I can get 60 FPS out of War Thunder at medium res. 40 at high. 50 when I custom tune it based on the Nvidia optimizing app.

... Simple subtraction

I probably shoulñd not be asking this, but did you buy it from a shady guy in a dark alley in Detroit or something? Because dealers of used IT have computers like that in store but they don't sell them for 175 bucks precisely.

--
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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Nov 10 2021 05:06 pm

I probably shoul­d not be asking this, but did you buy it from a shady guy in
a dark alley in Detroit or something? Because dealers of used IT have computers like that in store but they don't sell them for 175 bucks precisely.

in the usa we can usually get stuff like this from ebay but the memory isnt normally that high. maybe 4-8gigs.
poindexter probably doesnt know how much memory he has and got the video card model wrong.
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On 10/24/21 10:56, Matthew Munson wrote:

They're drawing a line in the sand at TPM2 and Secure Boot.

Even if I am TPM2 and reinstalled in secure boot, they will
not let me run Win 11 on my Ryzen.

Zen 1 had support for a virtual TPM2? I think there's similar issues
for those with Core 6000 series as well, or maybe 8000 series.
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just use this https://ninite.com/classicstart/

I would suggest getting chocolatey set up and doing:

choco install classic-shell

The advantage is that choco is actually something close to a package manager. It'll track dependencies, and handle upgrades.

I would find Windows even more insufferable if I couldn't just do:

choco upgrade all

To get pretty much everything up to date effortlessly.

It's also good enough I have used it in cloud setup scripts to create AMIs for servers. (I'm an AWS drone)

... I think you had better see who's at home - Picard

Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Roc to MRO on Thu Nov 11 2021 10:27 pm

just use this https://ninite.com/classicstart/

I would suggest getting chocolatey set up and doing:

choco install classic-shell

The advantage is that choco is actually something close to a package manager. It'll track dependencies, and handle upgrades.

yeah i use that too. but i dont install a lot of programs.
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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I probably shoul-d not be asking this, but did you buy it from a shady
guy in a dark alley in Detroit or something? Because dealers of used IT have computers like that in store but they don't sell them for 175
bucks precisely.

We have a Thrift store called Grey Bears in Santa Cruz, CA. It's a huge operation run for seniors. They do building material recycling, e-waste,
food programs for seniors, and have a thriving thrift shop.

Their computer and electronics section is pretty impressive; I've recently bought a nice, new to me stereo receiver there for $60 and a Synology
DS1010+ chassis for $130.


... Apotheosis was the beginning before the beginning.
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operation run for seniors. They do building material recycling,
e-waste,

I think that is a good idea, help to make older technology usable. Make a
10 year old laptop serviable for another 5 years, or use parts from older desktops to make a semi updated computer.


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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Utopian Galt to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Nov 12 2021 09:06 pm

operation run for seniors. They do building material recycling,
e-waste,

I think that is a good idea, help to make older technology usable. Make a
10 year old laptop serviable for another 5 years, or use parts from older desktops to make a semi updated computer.

as an electronics tech who worked in RMA departments, i'd have to say putting old parts to make a computer to give to another is a receipe for disaster.

that computer will just blow out something and then it will have to be serviced again. that would be more expensive overall than getting them a cheap computer with new parts.

using old stuff just doesnt pan out.
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using old stuff just doesnt pan out.

My own experience is that reusing is fine, if and only if:
- Decent case (positive air flow, filters, not an oven).
- Good PSU (By the popular "psu tier list", tier 2 at worst).

I have found these two points make the difference between "hardware breaks, eventually" and "hardware doesn't break, ever".

My family (extended) is all using old parts, and so far (~10 year) no issues.

... The power came on. - Kirk

Re: Re: Windows 11
By: MRO to Utopian Galt on Sat Nov 13 2021 08:38 am

Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Utopian Galt to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Nov 12 2021 09:06 pm

operation run for seniors. They do building material recycling, e-waste,

I think that is a good idea, help to make older technology usable. Make a 10 year old laptop serviable for another 5 years, or use parts from older desktops to make a semi updated computer.

as an electronics tech who worked in RMA departments, i'd have to say puttin

that computer will just blow out something and then it will have to be servi

using old stuff just doesnt pan out.

The e-recycling places in my area that try to recover money through store
front used computer and part salesdo not offer up much stuff past 5 years
old. If it was worth anything it would sell quickly or in the case of older stuff it would stripped down to recover materials. One place the company I worked for would donate machines to stopped taking CRT's then eventually hardware over 7 years old because they couldn't flip it.

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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Roc to MRO on Sun Nov 14 2021 01:06 pm

using old stuff just doesnt pan out.

My own experience is that reusing is fine, if and only if:
- Decent case (positive air flow, filters, not an oven).
- Good PSU (By the popular "psu tier list", tier 2 at worst).

I have found these two points make the difference between "hardware breaks, eventually" and "hardware doesn't break, ever".

My family (extended) is all using old parts, and so far (~10 year) no issues.

i'm talking about giving stuff to people. go ahead and put old stuff together for yourself.
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On 10/20/2021 7:13 AM, ARELOR wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

My policy is not to upgrade my hardware just because some shinny software appeared over the horizon. Specially if I don't need the new software. Most often I can't justify the expense.

I mean I am running on junk hardware from 2007 and I am more productive than a
lot of people running the newest cool thing on the newest cool hardware.

I am thinking just getting a 1tb SSD stick for my desktop and just enjoy my ryzen box for
another 3-4 years. PC Gaming is becoming way too expensive.

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Re: RE: Windows 11
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ARELOR on Fri Nov 05 2021 07:42 pm

On 10/20/2021 7:13 AM, ARELOR wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

My policy is not to upgrade my hardware just because some shinny software appear
over the horizon. Specially if I don't need the new software. Most often I can't
justify the expense.

I mean I am running on junk hardware from 2007 and I am more productive than a
lot of people running the newest cool thing on the newest cool hardware.

I am thinking just getting a 1tb SSD stick for my desktop and just enjoy my ryzen b
for
another 3-4 years. PC Gaming is becoming way too expensive.

You could do worse than that.

You can play a lot of cool old games with junkyard computers. Experience the full
power of DOS games! Hell you can even play the original Diablo using FOSS engines on
pretty low end hardware.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: DaiTengu to paulie420 on Fri Oct 29 2021 10:15:09

I'm pretty familiar with WINE. The ham radio applications I use on Windows don't have an equivelant counterpart under Linux, and are too complex for WINE to deal with, with serial connections audio cabling and whatnot.

What ham apps are you running in Windows?

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On 12/1/2021 1:32 PM, ARELOR wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

You could do worse than that.

You can play a lot of cool old games with junkyard computers. Experience the full
power of DOS games! Hell you can even play the original Diablo using FOSS engines on
pretty low end hardware.

Yeah, I think I am getting burned out of gaming. There is a huge backlog of unplayed
games I have. Its a first world collectors burden.
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Re: RE: Windows 11
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ARELOR on Mon Dec 20 2021 10:19 pm

pretty low end hardware.

Yeah, I think I am getting burned out of gaming. There is a huge backlog of unplayed
games I have. Its a first world collectors burden.

must be nice. i work so much i don't have time for playing games.

do you have a full time job?
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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: Joe Phigan to DaiTengu on Sat Dec 11 2021 12:15 pm

I'm pretty familiar with WINE. The ham radio applications I use on
Windows don't have an equivelant counterpart under Linux, and are too
complex for WINE to deal with, with serial connections audio cabling
and whatnot.

What ham apps are you running in Windows?

Win4Icom, ACLog (N3FJP's logging software), Winlink + VARA, Ham Radio Deluxe (mostly for the digital mode stuff), various stuff for digital modes (YSF, Wires-X DMR and D-Star) Occasionally I use CW Skimmer.

Those are the ones that are strictly limited to Windows. other stuff I run is WSJT-X and/or JTDX, fldigi from time to time, and GridTracker. These all have native linux binaries.

DaiTengu

... Pohl's law: Nothing is so good that somebody, somewhere, will not hate it

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Re: RE: Windows 11
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ARELOR on Mon Dec 20 2021 10:19 pm

Yeah, I think I am getting burned out of gaming. There is a huge backlog of unplayed games I have. Its a first world collectors burden.

Yeah, tell me about it.

https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561197960380065/?cc=us

DaiTengu

... Diogenes is still searching.

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must be nice. i work so much i don't have time for playing games.

do you have a full time job?

Yes, I have been employed except for some down time between jobs.

... Confucius say: "Man who runs behind car gets exhausted"

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Re: Re: Windows 11
By: MATT MUNSON to MRO on Wed Dec 29 2021 02:35 pm

must be nice. i work so much i don't have time for playing games.

do you have a full time job?

Yes, I have been employed except for some down time between jobs.

i dont know how you have time to do that gaming.
arent you old like me?

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