Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 05 2022 09:26 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 07:10 am

I think of the stories of Steve Wozniak approaching his employer (Hewlett Packard) to notify them that he'd created the Apple while under a work product agreement and HP had first right to his IP. They passed on it.

I remember the scene in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" showing Steve Wozniak br

Nightfox

Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since the plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subset from
the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3 desktops and upper management freaked out. They were considered less useful than a
terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and wereway less powerful than a mainframe. It took several years before minds were changed. 15 years ago they replaced most of their computers with a thin client environment,
then recently went back to desktops due to downfalls in having a terminal server being a critical point of failure

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu May 05 2022 04:57 pm

Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff als had a bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.

Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

* SLMR 2.1a * "We use language??" - Beavis

Clark and Donna met in college, like the creators of Cisco. Clark worked for Cardiff, Donna worked for TI.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 06 2022 11:32 am

Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since the plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subset from the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3 desktops and upper management freaked out. They were considered less useful than a terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and wereway less powerful than a mainframe. It took several years before minds were changed. 15 years ago they replaced most of their computers with a thin client environment, then recently went back to desktops due to downfalls in having a terminal server being a critical point of failure

With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a little weird that we've gone from using dumb terminals connected to mainframes years ago, to having our own powerful desktop computers, to now many people using simple devices using online software again.

Nightfox

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Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

I thought they both did at one time. I'm sure there's a HACF wiki
out there I can check...



... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri May 06 2022 02:41 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 06 2022 11:32 am

Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since the plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subs from the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3 desktops and upper management freaked out. They were considered less useful than a terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and wereway less powerful than a mainframe. It took several years before mi were changed. 15 years ago they replaced most of their computers with a thin client environment, then recently went back to desktops due to downfalls in having a terminal server being a critical point of failure

With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a li g online software again.

Nightfox

Unless you are doing something hardware intensive such as gaming, video
editing or 3d modeling or cad. Served apps are the way to go. No worries about software patches at the server end. That was one of the nice things about thin and zero clients. We had a few very intelligent, yet sometime clueless engineers that would not read who emails are from or weigh in their minds if an emal seemed odd, and would click on aatachments they think are
pdf or other documents, then suddenly get a notice their session is infected.
Luckily with thin sessions, you can close that session and the virus is
gone.

Downsides are bandwidth and enough memory and cpu utilization set aside to
run everything

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat May 07 2022 12:56 pm

Unless you are doing something hardware intensive such as gaming, video editing or 3d modeling or cad. Served apps are the way to go. No worries about software patches at the server end. That was one of the nice things

Downsides are bandwidth and enough memory and cpu utilization set aside to run everything

I can see how served apps can have their advantages. But I was going to say, latency due to bandwidth is something that annoys me about online apps. I have a device powerful enough to run it, and generally I'd tend to prefer running it directly on my device so there are no latency issues.

And I do a lot of what you mentioned above - Gaming, video editing (usually just video transcoding and upscalign), and I also do software development sometimes. Those all are things where it's useful to have all that stuff installed locally.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Fri May 06 2022 06:52 am

Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

I thought they both did at one time. I'm sure there's a HACF wiki
out there I can check...

... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.

Clark and Donna met in college, tried to make their own pc, but after that Clark joined Cardiff and Donna joined TI

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 07 2022 02:53 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat May 07 2022 12:56 pm

Unless you are doing something hardware intensive such as gaming, video editing or 3d modeling or cad. Served apps are the way to go. No worrie about software patches at the server end. That was one of the nice thin

Downsides are bandwidth and enough memory and cpu utilization set aside run everything

I can see how served apps can have their advantages. But I was going to say evice so there are no latency issues.

And I do a lot of what you mentioned above - Gaming, video editing (usually

Nightfox

In a business environment many of those things you mention (and I mentioned)
as being processor intensive) are non-issues, since gaming is usually
forbidden on company time, and video editing, drafting and design work are pretty exclusive. Imagine maintaining a site with 2000 users, and only 40
fall into a case where they would need a high end machine. You could set up
a tier system with regards to which departments get better gear, however you still have to have server based management, licensing and a virus and malware protection suite. While the initial server investment will be high,
purchasing thin or zero clients saves money over time when it normally comes time to upgrade physical assets or rolling out a new operating system. If a thin user's session is chirping out irregular net traffic, send a message to the user to log out and log back on. Any infection or hijacker is gone when the session closes.



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I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they
both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

Clark and Donna met in college, like the creators of Cisco. Clark worked for Cardiff, Donna worked for TI.

Been a while since I watched, but that is how I remember it.


* SLMR 2.1a * It's time for the Possum Lodge Word Game!!!

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I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

I thought they both did at one time. I'm sure there's a HACF wiki
out there I can check...

Could have. I do know that at some point, before the period the show
covered, they worked on a PC-type pet project together and that it
didn't work out. That came up some while Clark was trying to get the Giant together.


* SLMR 2.1a * It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun May 08 2022 08:03 am

In a business environment many of those things you mention (and I mentioned) as being processor intensive) are non-issues, since gaming is usually forbidden on company time, and video editing, drafting and design

I was thinking mainly of home use. If business use was the focus of the thread, maybe I had missed that.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun May 08 2022 01:52 pm

I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying tha they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

I thought they both did at one time. I'm sure there's a HACF wiki
out there I can check...

Could have. I do know that at some point, before the period the show covered, they worked on a PC-type pet project together and that it
didn't work out. That came up some while Clark was trying to get the Giant together.

* SLMR 2.1a * It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!

That was in and right after college. Their relationship was based on the founders of Cisco meeting in college, who looked for a way they could bridge the networks between their dorms in order to chat.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Mon May 09 2022 08:49 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun May 08 2022 08:03 am

In a business environment many of those things you mention (and I mentioned) as being processor intensive) are non-issues, since gaming i usually forbidden on company time, and video editing, drafting and desi

I was thinking mainly of home use. If business use was the focus of the thr

Nightfox

We're on the same page, and even the same book now:)

Yeah,I thought that was clear when I mentioned a 2000 user environment earlie r.

Thin clients are more of a "pay me now" form of maintaining a multi-user desktop environment. It pays off in the long run when software patches and revisions are made, or someone's workstation hardware craps out, and they can walk over to any open desk in their department and have access to all their apps and storage. The last project I was on was at a hospital, and they used
a hybrid environemnt where they used regular desktops that ran apps locally, however the apps they had access to were controlled by a remote profile manager. Once you isgned in, the Zen desktop would pop up a window with all the apps you have access to. If you need some thing else, you fill out a request and have your manager approve it. When received, an admin will add permissions to that app in your profile. Log out and log back in, and the
icon appears.

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Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

Thin clients are more of a "pay me now" form of maintaining a
multi-user desktop environment. It pays off in the long run when
software patches and revisions are made, or someone's workstation
hardware craps out, and they can walk over to any open desk in their department and have access to all their apps and storage.

As an IT manager, I always thought they'd be a great solution for
most office workers, but when we set up roaming profiles to get the
portability aspect of thin clients, I'd get that person who'd put *all* of
their apps on the desktop, making their roaming profile huge. It'd
take them forever to log in over a fast ethernet connection.

They'd complain, we'd urge them to put their files on the server, and
they'd prefer to complain that make something work.


(aside: I was watching old episodes of "Computer Chronicles", and
they talked about, if you had an "internet TV", they could "blast"
FOUR MEGABYTES work of programs to you, in less than 2 minutes! My,
how far we've come...)



... Is there something missing?
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 06:45 am

(aside: I was watching old episodes of "Computer Chronicles", and
they talked about, if you had an "internet TV", they could "blast"
FOUR MEGABYTES work of programs to you, in less than 2 minutes! My,
how far we've come...)

Yeah, we've come a long way.
I think I might have seen a couple episodes of that show when I was a kid, but I don't remember exactly. I started watching some of those episodes on YouTube and I thought I recognized the host and some of the things they had talked about (i.e., the episode where they talked about buying a Mac vs. a PC, etc.).

Nightfox

---
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 06:45 am

Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

Thin clients are more of a "pay me now" form of maintaining a multi-user desktop environment. It pays off in the long run when software patches and revisions are made, or someone's workstation hardware craps out, and they can walk over to any open desk in their department and have access to all their apps and storage.

As an IT manager, I always thought they'd be a great solution for
most office workers, but when we set up roaming profiles to get the
portability aspect of thin clients, I'd get that person who'd put *all* of
their apps on the desktop, making their roaming profile huge. It'd
take them forever to log in over a fast ethernet connection.

They'd complain, we'd urge them to put their files on the server, and
they'd prefer to complain that make something work.

(aside: I was watching old episodes of "Computer Chronicles", and
they talked about, if you had an "internet TV", they could "blast"
FOUR MEGABYTES work of programs to you, in less than 2 minutes! My,
how far we've come...)

... Is there something missing?

Yeah, there's always some misfit trying to use their system is a way that breaks things. At a previous site we had to lock down a user's profile so the y couldn't change things enoughto get in trouble. When they would complain
to their upper management anout us preventing from doing his job, we prove he can do his job like everyone else can the way the system was deployed, then sh ow the manager the number of how many times he would call to ask for things
he cannot have, or time spent undoing his mistakes.

One day heefound a setting deep within Lotus Notes that we couldn't figure
out why it had this option. It disabled passwords and authentication, which was required to access his inbox, archives, and other message areas and knowledge bases. If you tried to fix it, it would not provide a way to authenticate the connection. It totally screwed up his inbox and profile on his home drive. Luckily dowadays with citrix and ZEnworks all that setup
stuff can be grayed out or hidden.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 10 2022 08:59 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 06:45 am

(aside: I was watching old episodes of "Computer Chronicles", and
they talked about, if you had an "internet TV", they could "blast"
FOUR MEGABYTES work of programs to you, in less than 2 minutes! My,
how far we've come...)

Yeah, we've come a long way.
I think I might have seen a couple episodes of that show when I was a kid, b sode where they talked about buying a Mac vs. a PC, etc.).

Nightfox

It use dto air on the local PBS station back in the mid yo late 80's. I
recall one where they had two companies reviewing their product, and the
Korean based firm's sales rep said they were experimenting with joining severa l lcd panels to form larger panels. Before then LCD panels were long,
slender panels cpable of maybe 80x10 rows. The sales guy was estatic, sying active matrix color was right around the corner, and large high definition
TV's will put CRT's out of business. The other sales guy laughed, and stated
a bunch of stats about viewing angle, latency in twist rate of the crystals, and the computing power needed to multiplex all these little panels into one larger one. The slaes guy form the Korean company made a remark about a difference in US and Asian engineering investment. The main difference was regarding time span before maturity versus price. Us firms were looking at
3-5 years maturity versus what was possible in 10+ years.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue May 10 2022 12:17 am

manager. Once you isgned in, the Zen desktop would pop up a window with all the apps you have access to. If you need some thing else, you fill out a

It sounds like they were using Micro Focus ZENworks. I run ZENworks in the 1500 user environment that I admin, and it's the BEST THING EVER :)



o
(O)
BeLLy

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Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

It use dto air on the local PBS station back in the mid yo late 80's.
I recall one where they had two companies reviewing their product, and
the Korean based firm's sales rep said they were experimenting with joining severa l lcd panels to form larger panels.

Gary Kildall, the co-host with the beard, is the guy who famously
missed an appointment with IBM and missed the opportunity to
sell CPM/86 to them for the IBM PC.

If memory serves, one of our local affiliates in the San Francisco
Bay Area produced the show. I love seeing balding nerds with wire-rim
prescription glasses in white starched shirts and tie-pins talking
about microprocessors, micro-floppies and more effective data
processing, reminds me of where IT came from. In Halt and Catch Fire,
when Joe goes to work for his girlfriend's dad's company in season 2,
it wasn't that far off.

One of the episodes of Computer Chronicles was at CoffeeNet, an
internet cafe before coffee shops knew what Linux or Wifi was. I
remember seeing it back in the late '90s.

I don't know if they ever covered SFNet, a multi-node dial-up BBS in
San Francisco that had coin-op kiosks in coffee shops and
laundromats. They did a lot to bring non-computer people into the
community, especially when a lot of people didn't have home computers
yet.






Before then LCD

panels were long, slender panels cpable of maybe 80x10 rows. The sales guy was estatic, sying active matrix color was right around the corner, and large high definition TV's will put CRT's out of business. The
other sales guy laughed, and stated a bunch of stats about viewing
angle, latency in twist rate of the crystals, and the computing power needed to multiplex all these little panels into one larger one. The slaes guy form the Korean company made a remark about a difference in
US and Asian engineering investment. The main difference was regarding time span before maturity versus price. Us firms were looking at 3-5 years maturity versus what was possible in 10+ years.
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 11 2022 06:53 am

One of the episodes of Computer Chronicles was at CoffeeNet, an
internet cafe before coffee shops knew what Linux or Wifi was. I
remember seeing it back in the late '90s.

Most episodes are on YouTube, and AFAIK all of them are on archive.org.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ComputerChroniclesYT https://archive.org/details/computerchronicles


- Andre

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 11 2022 06:53 am

Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

It use dto air on the local PBS station back in the mid yo late 80's.
I recall one where they had two companies reviewing their product, and the Korean based firm's sales rep said they were experimenting with joining severa l lcd panels to form larger panels.

Gary Kildall, the co-host with the beard, is the guy who famously
missed an appointment with IBM and missed the opportunity to
sell CPM/86 to them for the IBM PC.

If memory serves, one of our local affiliates in the San Francisco
Bay Area produced the show. I love seeing balding nerds with wire-rim
prescription glasses in white starched shirts and tie-pins talking
about microprocessors, micro-floppies and more effective data
processing, reminds me of where IT came from. In Halt and Catch Fire,
when Joe goes to work for his girlfriend's dad's company in season 2,
it wasn't that far off.

One of the episodes of Computer Chronicles was at CoffeeNet, an
internet cafe before coffee shops knew what Linux or Wifi was. I
remember seeing it back in the late '90s.

I don't know if they ever covered SFNet, a multi-node dial-up BBS in
San Francisco that had coin-op kiosks in coffee shops and
laundromats. They did a lot to bring non-computer people into the
community, especially when a lot of people didn't have home computers
yet.

Before then LCD

panels were long, slender panels cpable of maybe 80x10 rows. The sales guy was estatic, sying active matrix color was right around the corner, and large high definition TV's will put CRT's out of business. The other sales guy laughed, and stated a bunch of stats about viewing angle, latency in twist rate of the crystals, and the computing power needed to multiplex all these little panels into one larger one. The slaes guy form the Korean company made a remark about a difference in US and Asian engineering investment. The main difference was regarding time span before maturity versus price. Us firms were looking at 3-5 years maturity versus what was possible in 10+ years.
---
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... Is it finished?

Look up the Gary Kildall special of Computer chronicles either on Youtube or Archive.org. Associates of Gary say their meetings with IBM went
differently. Bill Gates already had his foot in the door when he was
consulted to help write the IBM BIOS. He knew alot of things he shouldn't
have known as a competitor going in to bid on selling an operating system.

Kildall would pitch his companie's products when possible on the show. He produced a graphics enivronment manager called GEM. It was his take on the Apple windowed OS and would run on 512k while Windows required over 640k.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri May 06 2022 02:41 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire

With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a little weird that we've gone from using dumb terminals connected to mainframes years ago, to having our own powerful desktop computers, to now many people using simple devices using online software again.

i think it makes perfect sense.
you should only use what you need.

---
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue May 10 2022 06:45 am

(aside: I was watching old episodes of "Computer Chronicles", and
they talked about, if you had an "internet TV", they could "blast"
FOUR MEGABYTES work of programs to you, in less than 2 minutes! My,
how far we've come...)

i used to have a bunch of those but i lost them.
good thing there's yt-dlp

---
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 10 2022 03:22 pm

Yeah, there's always some misfit trying to use their system is a way that breaks things. At a previous site we had to lock down a user's profile so the y couldn't change things enoughto get in trouble. When they would complain

i someone is at a desk. you have to watch them.
there will be some funny business going on.
my friend is an it manager and they have this software that shows all the users activity.

this dude got in trouble and they watched him delete his emails and try to cover his tracks. it was funny. they were deleted to HIM, but not for IT.
they track when they're idle, what programs are open, what emails they send and receive. it's kinda scarey.... if you're the type to screw off.

at my job as an electronics tech we had an engineer who would sit by himself and he would test controllers. when the bosses would go to lunch, he would sleep. then he would wake up and restart the computer over and over again.
he was stupid and didn't realize my desk was right behind his.

he was trying to break the computer by restarting it. either hardware, the OS or both, he was trying. i then asked him if someone was wrong with that computer and he jumped and got scared and said no.

he stopped doing it. later on i helpd out in another department and came back and that computer was dead and they said they could no longer use that test fixture to check controllers. i told my boss but there was no way to prove it unless they would have had a camera on him all day.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 11 2022 06:53 am

Gary Kildall, the co-host with the beard, is the guy who famously
missed an appointment with IBM and missed the opportunity to
sell CPM/86 to them for the IBM PC.

he didn't miss it. his wife was going to handle the meeting.
he was on company business at another location.

His wife didn't want to sign the standard NDA without her husband. she should have known they had the NDA, so gary and his wife dropped the ball on that one.
ibm would have just bought them out. i'm not sure if that's what they wanted.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri May 06 2022 05:45 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri May 06 2022 02:41 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire

With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a little weird that we've gone from using dumb terminals connected to mainframes years ago, to having our own powerful desktop computers, to no many people using simple devices using online software again.

i think it makes perfect sense.
you should only use what you need.

When a pc was treated like an remote island, you need all the resources to be onhand. A terminals' apps and outside communications came in the form of a
big box in the basement, and allowed others to leave internal mail or send
ort broadcast messages to the all the users or just one user. Users were locked down from using external devices that could introduce a virus.

Chromebooks and Android desktops are great if you have the bandwidth. Again, apps are updated and managed from the source. Cloud storage allows for you
to damage your device and not worry about lost data.

---
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed May 11 2022 07:57 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 10 2022 03:22 pm

Yeah, there's always some misfit trying to use their system is a way that breaks things. At a previous site we had to lock down a user's profile s the y couldn't change things enoughto get in trouble. When they would complain

i someone is at a desk. you have to watch them.
there will be some funny business going on.
my friend is an it manager and they have this software that shows all the us

this dude got in trouble and they watched him delete his emails and try to c they track when they're idle, what programs are open, what emails they send

at my job as an electronics tech we had an engineer who would sit by himself he was stupid and didn't realize my desk was right behind his.

he was trying to break the computer by restarting it. either hardware, the O

he stopped doing it. later on i helpd out in another department and came ba ve had a camera on him all day.

The worst users were the "super users" that purchased an O'Reilly book on
every app and the OS they used, and would try to tweak the OS how they
wanted it to run. You can spot them on their first day because they would
ask if you have all the adapters they need to use their old IBM "M" keyboard they 've been using since the 1980's. The other jerk you had to look for
would comlain about his laptop, then you find the problem is some other company's VPN software is installed. The guy moonlights for a competitor,
and uses all his compnay provided assets because his other employer asks contractors to supply their own devices and run their apps through Citrix desk top. When you strip off their VPN and tell them that is not only an IT violat ion but also an ethics violation due to conflict of interest, they will go to their supervisor and play stupid and say we evil IT are making him non-productive. My boss will forward me the nastygram he received, I will
show him and the other guy's boss in an email what was done, and would copy
and paste the exact wording from the IT/ user's agreement and the ethics
guide page that says I should've immediately informed the legal department
and HR of this improper use of company assests and intellectual property.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 12 2022 03:41 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 11 2022 06:53 am

Gary Kildall, the co-host with the beard, is the guy who famously
missed an appointment with IBM and missed the opportunity to
sell CPM/86 to them for the IBM PC.

he didn't miss it. his wife was going to handle the meeting.
he was on company business at another location.

His wife didn't want to sign the standard NDA without her husband. she shou ibm would have just bought them out. i'm not sure if that's what they wante

Correct. Folklore is he picked that day to go out flying his plane. he had flown to meet a customer earlier and met with IBM later. Part of the NDA
back then included disavowment of any meetings or deals. Gates could move faster and sweetened the deal with undercutting DRI's pricing because he had previously worked on creating IBM's BIOS and overheard things involved in the next step of development.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed May 18 2022 10:10 pm

His wife didn't want to sign the standard NDA without her husband.

she
shou ibm would have just bought them out. i'm not sure if that's what they wante

Correct. Folklore is he picked that day to go out flying his plane.

he had
flown to meet a customer earlier and met with IBM later. Part of the NDA back then included disavowment of any meetings or deals. Gates could move faster and sweetened the deal with undercutting DRI's pricing because he had previously worked on creating IBM's BIOS and overheard things involved in the next step of development.

either way you could call them stupid for not knowing about the NDA. but like i said ibm wanted to buy them out, not license, so they DR would have said no anyways.

he was a successful man and enjoyed life. but he was an alcoholic.
atleast he's not a pedophile like bill gates


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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed May 18 2022 09:38 pm

When a pc was treated like an remote island, you need all the resources to be onhand. A terminals' apps and outside communications came in the form of a big box in the basement, and allowed others to leave internal mail or send ort broadcast messages to the all the users or just one user. Users were locked down from using external devices that could introduce a virus.

Chromebooks and Android desktops are great if you have the bandwidth. Again, apps are updated and managed from the source. Cloud storage allows for you to damage your device and not worry about lost data.

Aside from needing enough bandwidth, one thing with Chromebooks & similar that totally rely on online apps is if the connection is lost, then you can't do any work. It's basically an all-or-nothing thing. I wouldn't really like being stuck without a way to do what I want to do.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu May 19 2022 09:55 am

Aside from needing enough bandwidth, one thing with Chromebooks & similar th

I manage just shy of 1k Chromebooks at work. They will, indeed, function without a 'Net connection, although you do need to have cached your documents locally first. This is not the default behaviour, though.

o
(O)
BeLLy

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Belly to Nightfox on Thu May 19 2022 07:19 pm

Aside from needing enough bandwidth, one thing with Chromebooks &
similar th

I manage just shy of 1k Chromebooks at work. They will, indeed, function without a 'Net connection, although you do need to have cached your documents locally first. This is not the default behaviour, though.

I thought pretty much all the software they ran was web-based though. Even if you cache your documents locally, do you have any way to open them without an internet connection?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu May 19 2022 09:55 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed May 18 2022 09:38 pm

When a pc was treated like an remote island, you need all the resources be onhand. A terminals' apps and outside communications came in the for of a big box in the basement, and allowed others to leave internal mail send ort broadcast messages to the all the users or just one user. User were locked down from using external devices that could introduce a vir

Chromebooks and Android desktops are great if you have the bandwidth. Again, apps are updated and managed from the source. Cloud storage allo for you to damage your device and not worry about lost data.

Aside from needing enough bandwidth, one thing with Chromebooks & similar th y to do what I want to do.

Nightfox

That is why so much effort is put into hardening business networks. Several schools have moved to Chromebooks, and I know of one major appliance manufacturer that dumped MS Office in favor of Google apps. That was a bold move, mainly because of users being more familair with Office all these years rather than bandwidth.


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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Belly on Thu May 19 2022 07:39 pm

I thought pretty much all the software they ran was web-based though. Even

Your Chrome apps get cached locally, just like extensions and such in the Chrome browser. The devices do have local storage onboard. In fact, I have an old Dell Chromebook at home that I flashed new firmware on, that runs Ubuntu. It's one of my favorite little lappys. The SSD is only 16GB, but I keep a 32GB SD card mounted for extra storage.

o
(O)
BeLLy

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Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-

Aside from needing enough bandwidth, one thing with Chromebooks &
similar that totally rely on online apps is if the connection is lost, then you can't do any work.

All of the Google apps let you work offline.



... Abandon desire
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 20 2022 02:02 am

That is why so much effort is put into hardening business networks. Several schools have moved to Chromebooks, and I know of one major appliance manufacturer that dumped MS Office in favor of Google apps. That was a bold move, mainly because of users being more familair with Office all these years rather than bandwidth.

Users being more familiar with Office than bandwidth? I'm not sure what you mean.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 21 2022 10:38 am

Users being more familiar with Office than bandwidth? I'm not sure what you

I think Moondog was saying that the reason for it being a bold move was more to do with user unfamiliarity, rather than the need for more bandwidth.

o
(O)
BeLLy

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 21 2022 10:38 am

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 20 2022 02:02 am

That is why so much effort is put into hardening business networks. Several schools have moved to Chromebooks, and I know of one major appliance manufacturer that dumped MS Office in favor of Google apps. T was a bold move, mainly because of users being more familair with Offic all these years rather than bandwidth.

Users being more familiar with Office than bandwidth? I'm not sure what you

Nightfox

My stream of thought must've dropped off. I think I meant to say bandwidth re liant apps. Give someone who has used MS Office as their prime work tool an alternate tool set like Google Apps, and some may adapt quickly while others will struggle since it's not what they have always used. I even suspect ed a few admins that used changes in software as excuses as to why they couldn't
get work done in time. Their bosses would crate nastygrams to our bosses,
they we'd have our network security guy take a peak at their browsing habits and remote view them when they weren't aware. One user would ask why there's an eyeball on the system tray?


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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Belly to Nightfox on Sat May 21 2022 09:39 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 21 2022 10:38 am

Users being more familiar with Office than bandwidth? I'm not sure what

I think Moondog was saying that the reason for it being a bold move was more do with user unfamiliarity, rather than the need for more bandwidth.

o
(O)
BeLLy

Bingo. I lost my stream of though somewhere in editing that. Transitions
from Windows have been way easier than moving between Office upgrades. With that knowledge, imagine how crazy it was to switch to something completely different!

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Belly on Sun May 22 2022 09:15 am

Ah I watched all 4 seasons of Halt and Catch Fire before it was on Netflix. Each season is sort of its own thing. I really liked Seasons 1 and 2. Season 2 mostly focuses on BBSs, well specificaly an online service called Mutiny run on/for Commodore computers. It's clearly like Play Net, which became Quantum Link, and eventually America Online.
My BBS (mutiny BBS) was set up i 2018 after I watched this season because I liked having the idea of having a platform where you could write your own games and have your users play them. Not that my BBS is trying to exactly mimic the online service in this show but it inspired me to get off my butt and get the BBS going.
I didn't much care for the last season personally, it was much more emotional which some people might prefer.

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I was wondering if "Mutiny" was indeed a BBS service. Now I understand. I love love love that show! y

Knightwise
Host of the knightwise.com podcast
www.knightwise.com

... Difference between a virus and OS/2? Viruses work

knightwise wrote to Divarin <=-

I was wondering if "Mutiny" was indeed a BBS service. Now I
understand. I love love love that show! y

I just finished semi-binge-watching all 4 seasons of it, having missed
it completely when it first aired. Really liked it a LOT, great stuff!

Reminded me of buying my "Kaypro PC" back in 1986. :-)



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Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Joe Phigan to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 01:46 am

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Kaelon to All on Sun May 01 2022 14:54:45

Has anyone else here seen it? What do you think about the show?

Absolutley loved it! Best TV Series I've seen in a very long time. Bindge watched most of it. ;-)

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Hustler wrote to Joe Phigan <=-

Has anyone else here seen it? What do you think about the show?

Absolutley loved it! Best TV Series I've seen in a very long time.
Bindge watched most of it.

I just re-watched the tail end of season 4. Great show.

I want a present-day season 5.


... Abandon desire
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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hustler on Tue Aug 30 2022 07:30 am

Hustler wrote to Joe Phigan <=-

Has anyone else here seen it? What do you think about the show?

Absolutley loved it! Best TV Series I've seen in a very long time. Bindge watched most of it.

I just re-watched the tail end of season 4. Great show.

I want a present-day season 5.

... Abandon desire

i would prefer they stuck with the small jumps in time, and show the later
half of the 90's after the dot com boom and when file sharing services were hot. Remember Pointcast? Companies hated it because it consumed so much bandwith. Distributed computing was also new, so there's lots to play with
in that era. Pre-google search engine wars was big, too.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 05 2022 12:41 pm

i would prefer they stuck with the small jumps in time, and show the later half of the 90's after the dot com boom and when file sharing services were hot. Remember Pointcast? Companies hated it because it consumed so much bandwith. Distributed computing was also new, so there's lots to play with

i dont know of any company that used pointcast. i looked it up and internet sez it's like a screensaver that showed real time info.

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Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Sep 05 2022 02:13 pm

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 05 2022 12:41 pm

i would prefer they stuck with the small jumps in time, and show the late half of the 90's after the dot com boom and when file sharing services w hot. Remember Pointcast? Companies hated it because it consumed so much bandwith. Distributed computing was also new, so there's lots to play wi

i dont know of any company that used pointcast. i looked it up and internet

Pointcast wasn't used. Users would install it on their systems and use it to stream news, sports scores or stock information. Same thing with limewire, napster,and other programs that would install adware or eat bandwidth. I had
a friend that was assigned to a project to help reduce bandwidth consumption for a big corporation. He would skim through internet logs, and flag non-critical sites that were taking up user's time and eating bandwidth and su bmit them to another team that would add them to be blocked or set off alerts when accessed. This was before established firewall programs came out with most of the common websites already on the block list.

When I worked in nuclear generation we had lots of issues with searches bringing up undesirable results. Connectors would be either male or female,
or somemone would be looking for petcock valves. We also had several
employees or contractors that would be from countries other than the US, and surfing Asian, Indian, or Eastern European sites would get flagged right
away. One employee who kept his Chinese national status so he could return some day would access news sites and streaming video sites at work. Some of these required special plug-ins which would set off virus scanners or
firewall intrusion alerts.

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MRO wrote to Moondog <=-

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 05 2022 12:41 pm

hot. Remember Pointcast? Companies hated it because it consumed so much bandwith. Distributed computing was also new, so there's lots to play with

i dont know of any company that used pointcast. i looked it up and internet sez it's like a screensaver that showed real time info.

I worked at HP when Pointcast came out. It brought the local network down
to its knees every time that a new story was pushed, or a weather update,
or a score update, or an editor would publish a retraction, or...

The 90s were a weird time for consumer internet applications.

-+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

... *Fry: Sweet justice! Sweet, juicy justice!
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