Re: Re: Great Replacement Theory
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Fri Jun 10 2022 08:02 am
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
The high number of Russian losses is quite staggering, considering how quickly they were able to sieze territory at the start of the invasion.
One has to wonder how far they will be willing to escalate.
9 years? That's how long they were in Afghanistan.
... Would you like to go back?
i would not fuck with the russians. they are way too smart.
usa should stay out of it.
i would not fuck with the russians. they are way too smart.
usa should stay out of it.
The Russians are proving themsleves in the Ukraine to be way behind the curve. last time I checked they had lost over 14 generals and 40 colonels in combat. They lack secure comms, and use cell phones and cheap Chinese baofeng commercial band radios. Ukrainian artillery is dead nutz accurate be cause it is fed GPS coordinates from Russian troop's and officers phones. This is not a new idea. Back in the 90's during the Bosnian conflict officers responsible for war crimes were using unsecured cell phones, and were easily caught.
Their 40 mile convoy was impressive until it ran out of gas and the dry rotted Chinese tires tore apart. Their latest planes capable of dropping guided munitions are dropping dumb iron bombs (and missing) due to lack of guided muntions. Their tanks are easy prey for drones dropping RPG shaped charges with 3d printed fins.
Soldiers get exposed in the open, retreat, then try the same strategy over and over with no change. No smoke for cover, and no suppressing fire.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Jun 11 2022 10:20 pm
i would not fuck with the russians. they are way too smart.
usa should stay out of it.
The Russians are proving themsleves in the Ukraine to be way behind the curve. last time I checked they had lost over 14 generals and 40 colonel in combat. They lack secure comms, and use cell phones and cheap Chinese baofeng commercial band radios. Ukrainian artillery is dead nutz accurat be cause it is fed GPS coordinates from Russian troop's and officers phon This is not a new idea. Back in the 90's during the Bosnian conflict officers responsible for war crimes were using unsecured cell phones, and were easily caught.
Their 40 mile convoy was impressive until it ran out of gas and the dry rotted Chinese tires tore apart. Their latest planes capable of dropping guided munitions are dropping dumb iron bombs (and missing) due to lack o guided muntions. Their tanks are easy prey for drones dropping RPG shape charges with 3d printed fins.
Soldiers get exposed in the open, retreat, then try the same strategy ove and over with no change. No smoke for cover, and no suppressing fire.
if you say so.
"Russians are on the verge of capturing key Ukrainian city. In neighboring B 5/23/18 CNN London Ben Wedeman
By Ben Wedeman, CNN
Updated 9:40 AM ET, Sun June 12, 2022"
rolling stone:
"`They're Wiping Us From Earth': Evading Russian Artillery With a Ukrainian
"Russia is now in control of much of Severodonetsk, the epicenter of the bat for Ukraine's eastern Donbas region
By Josh Pennington, Irene Nasser and Jorge Engels, CNN
Updated 8:45 PM ET, Sat June 11, 2022
"
Have a look inside Russia's new 'Tasty' McDonald's replacement
Close
The first of Russia's rebranded McDonald's has opened in Moscow, after the f
Last month McDonald's announced the closure of all restaurants in the Russia
The fast food company sold more than 800 restaurants to Russian businessman
The branches will now reopen under the new name of "Vkusno i Tochka", which
The BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg visited the Moscow restaurant on its
and russia put it's money in chinese banks.
if you say so.
"Russians are on the verge of capturing key Ukrainian city. In neighboring B 5/23/18 CNN London Ben Wedeman
By Ben Wedeman, CNN
Updated 9:40 AM ET, Sun June 12, 2022"
rolling stone:
"`They're Wiping Us From Earth': Evading Russian Artillery With a Ukrainian
"Russia is now in control of much of Severodonetsk, the epicenter of the bat for Ukraine's eastern Donbas region
By Josh Pennington, Irene Nasser and Jorge Engels, CNN
Updated 8:45 PM ET, Sat June 11, 2022
"
Have a look inside Russia's new 'Tasty' McDonald's replacement
Close
The first of Russia's rebranded McDonald's has opened in Moscow, after the f
Last month McDonald's announced the closure of all restaurants in the Russia
The fast food company sold more than 800 restaurants to Russian businessman
The branches will now reopen under the new name of "Vkusno i Tochka", which
The BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg visited the Moscow restaurant on its
and russia put it's money in chinese banks.
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They run faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the force people have feared.
and russia put it's money in chinese banks.
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They run faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the force people have feared.
You do realise that Ukraine is a large country, right? No way they could capture it in two months.
During the start of their capaign, they had quite a significant rate of land capture, comparable to other succesful operations such as the invasion of normandy and desert storm.
Soldiers get exposed in the open, retreat, then try the same strategy over
and over with no change. No smoke for cover, and no suppressing fire.
if you say so.
"Russians are on the verge of capturing key Ukrainian city. In neighboring Bakhmut those wit
5/23/18 CNN London Ben Wedeman
By Ben Wedeman, CNN
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They run faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the force people have feared.
During the start of their capaign, they had quite a significant rate of land
capture, comparable to other succesful operations such as the invasion of normandy and desert storm.
the media is making people stupid.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jun 12 2022 02:16 pm
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They run faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the force people have feared.
They may be less than people was expecting them to be, but Russia is not fighting Ukraine. It is fighting Ukraine + Europe + the US. The latter two are concealed behind proxies but they are clearly there.
During the start of their capaign, they had quite a significant rate of land
capture, comparable to other succesful operations such as the invasion of normandy and desert storm.
the media is making people stupid.
I am not sure, but if memory serves me well, German radio stations were telling the population
that the German army was doing great during the Russian campaign in WWII. They only bothered
notifying that somewhing was not going according to the plan once Stalin kicked the nazies out
of Stalingrad, despite the fact it was notorious that things were going south for the nazies
some time before that.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jun 12 2022 02:16 pm
and russia put it's money in chinese banks.
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the forc people have feared.
are you there? are you some military genius?
this is from the washington post today:
"Ukraine, on the brink of losing the eastern region of Luhansk to Russia, is f the city is controlled by Russians," the Luhansk governor said Saturday. A
The fighting continues despite about 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers already havin
so did they run away that time?
i'm sure russia will lose any day now. expecially with the sanctions we put
did you see the threat that ukranian politician said where if russia won, th
here is an article where joe biden said we were giving ukraine information a https://apnews.com/85a2489b4fe1042cd03b0ae6f4421a04
ukraine is a corrupt country. they are also full of nazis. just the other day they posted a pic of a ukrainian inspecting damage of a vehicle and he h /?utm_source=Gab&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
https://preview.tinyurl.com/27m2re4z
i think russia stopping ukraine from joining nato and demilitarising them
is a very important. they should remain neutral.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Jun 12 2022 09:07 am
Soldiers get exposed in the open, retreat, then try the same strategy and over with no change. No smoke for cover, and no suppressing fire.
if you say so.
"Russians are on the verge of capturing key Ukrainian city. In neighborin 5/23/18 CNN London Ben Wedeman
By Ben Wedeman, CNN
[snips snip snip]
Something I have learnt from watching lots and lots of war movies from the 3 once a real conflict kicks in, the propaganda machines of every nation invol bullshit non stop until no information source remains to be believed.
Japanesse media in WWII was all about how poorly equiped the Allies were, ho discipline and how they could not build a structured army and how their offi Does this sound familiar to you?
Meanwhile WWII Chinesse movies were about how poorly equipped and stupid Jap how they lacked discipline and how they could not build an structured army a officers were clueless.
I am sure you can guess the theme of American WWII movies. Actually, America up by adding an extra trope: that an American who has been a bastard can red remembered as a hero if he does the right thing and kills nazies and japs.
So I am kind of skeptic regarding claims that this faction or that faction a they are ill equipped or whatever. That is what everybody has been claiming centuries already XD
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jun 12 2022 02:16 pm
The Russian super power as we feared them to be should've had the country under seige in two months. They're good at massacring civillians. They faster when ambushed versus standing their ground. they are not the forc people have feared.
They may be less than people was expecting them to be, but Russia is not fig is fighting Ukraine + Europe + the US. The latter two are concealed behind p clearly there.
The US could invade Mexico in a heart beat, unless Mexican troops had been a superpowers, there was international presure to debilitate the USD and its m around the world, and Mexico itself was packed with Chinesse-funded mercenar actually there".
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Sounds like pro-Putin propaganda.
When Zelinsky came in to power, he was
the anti-corruption president, pusihing Russian oligarchs out of positions of power.
Nazi grafitti was creditied to these oligarchs as part of
creating negative press, and that's what Putin does to justify all of his actions.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors
go
to war first and then seek to win.
that was screwed by their logisitics and years of corrupt officers stealing
The Russians ran out of gas rolling into Kiev happened way before the other countries began sending aide. Other than missiles and drones, surplus tanks from the 70's and 80's are being donated. These donated weapons are being piloted by their regular army, not foriegn fighters brought in to supplement their forces. Granted this equipment is old, but not obsolete, but than again it doens't have the same systems an M1 Abrams would have either.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Arelor on Tue Jun 14 2022 01:30 pm
The Russians ran out of gas rolling into Kiev happened way before the oth countries began sending aide. Other than missiles and drones, surplus ta from the 70's and 80's are being donated. These donated weapons are bein piloted by their regular army, not foriegn fighters brought in to supplem their forces. Granted this equipment is old, but not obsolete, but than again it doens't have the same systems an M1 Abrams would have either.
If we have learnt something from the Western fuckups in the Middle East is t expect superpowers funding mercs as a way to send troops in without having t troops.
I know it sounds like speculation, but it is a matter of statistics. If it i done and they have the motive and resources this time I see no reason why th doing it today XD Having Marines on the ground is a political time bomb but shadow soldiers that are not there is trouble-free, and everyboy is doing it can't accuse you of bringing mercs in because you will accuse them back.
Besides, when complex equipment is sent to ANY industry it usually comes wit operator included by contract. My clinic does not buy new prothesics unless either come with a techniccian to either use them or teach our surgeon how t I'd bet three bags of potatoes that drones etc. come with at least some tech included. Else, why would anybody bring in equipment nobody knows to use?
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Outside contractors are a way to introduce experienced trainers to less experienced troops. Volunteer forces such as their own foreign legion is a way to accept foriegn fighters into service. The down side of volunteer outside forces is there are times they ask for any person with a pulse. Imagine some CoD console jockey with no real servcie and no language skills trying to convince an officer they deserve to be a sniper.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Arelor on Wed Jun 15 2022 09:53 am
Outside contractors are a way to introduce experienced trainers to less experienced troops. Volunteer forces such as their own foreign legion is way to accept foriegn fighters into service. The down side of volunteer outside forces is there are times they ask for any person with a pulse. Imagine some CoD console jockey with no real servcie and no language skil trying to convince an officer they deserve to be a sniper.
Actually I have heard of some CoD personality joining in (can't remember whi side) and getting blasted in the first 4 minutes of real battle, now you mention it.
I guess taking cover and waiting for twelve seconds behind a wall does not remove bullet wounds in real life as well as it does in Call of Duty :-(
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Arelor on Wed Jun 15 2022 09:53 am
Outside contractors are a way to introduce experienced trainers to less experienced troops. Volunteer forces such as their own foreign legion is a way to accept foriegn fighters into service. The down side of volunteer outside forces is there are times they ask for any person with a pulse. Imagine some CoD console jockey with no real servcie and no language skills trying to convince an officer they deserve to be a sniper.
Actually I have heard of some CoD personality joining in (can't remember which side) and getting blasted in the first 4 minutes of real battle, now you mention it.
Yeah, joining a foriegn war where no one speaks your language well, and no pre vious history of military training with aspirations of being an operator are
no promises of success.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Arelor to Moondog on Wed Jun 15 2022 03:31 pm
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Arelor on Wed Jun 15 2022 09:53 am
Outside contractors are a way to introduce experienced trainers to les experienced troops. Volunteer forces such as their own foreign legion a way to accept foriegn fighters into service. The down side of volunteer outside forces is there are times they ask for any person wi a pulse. Imagine some CoD console jockey with no real servcie and no language skills trying to convince an officer they deserve to be a sniper.
Actually I have heard of some CoD personality joining in (can't remember which side) and getting blasted in the first 4 minutes of real battle, no you mention it.
i saw multiple instances of this. also these's a bunch of reddit nerds that
there's a young father with little kids who was ex military who went over th
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Arelor on Wed Jun 15 2022 11:00 pm
Yeah, joining a foriegn war where no one speaks your language well, and n pre vious history of military training with aspirations of being an opera are
no promises of success.
the french foreign legion makes them learn french and they pretty much walk
Re: Re: Great Replacement Theory
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Fri Jun 10 2022 08:38 pm
The high number of Russian losses is quite staggering, considering how quickly they were able to sieze territory at the start of the invasion.
One has to wonder how far they will be willing to escalate.
Agreed. There is a lot of scholarship inside of Russia's own military acade recapturing their territory, I think it's only a matter of time before Russi _____
-=: Kaelon :=-
Russia wants the Ukraine for its resources. I doubt they would resort to nukes on land they wish to occupy. Who would take a dump in th ecoffee pot because they want the coffee all to themselves? It's hard to "Russianize" a country if you give them a long lasting reminded why they shoudl hate you.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sun Jun 19 2022 04:29 pm
Russia wants the Ukraine for its resources. I doubt they would resort to nukes on land they wish to occupy. Who would take a dump in th ecoffee p because they want the coffee all to themselves? It's hard to "Russianize country if you give them a long lasting reminded why they shoudl hate you
I agree, but Russia can ill-afford outright humiliation and Putin's greatest
huge geopolitical risk for Russia. If Ukraine outright defeats Russia and s
Russia has huge manpower problems right now, and its advances are costing it _____
-=: Kaelon :=-
_____
Arelor wrote to Kaelon <=-
Chicken food's price has multiplied by around two in a matter of three months. That automatically refects in the prices and availability of
hen derivated food. You get the idea.
Arelor wrote to Kaelon <=-
Chicken food's price has multiplied by around two in a matter of three months. That automatically refects in the prices and availability of hen derivated food. You get the idea.
Doomsayers in the US are panicked about the price of feed and hay. It's going to get ugly.
Arelor wrote to Kaelon <=-
Chicken food's price has multiplied by around two in a matter of thr months. That automatically refects in the prices and availability of hen derivated food. You get the idea.
Doomsayers in the US are panicked about the price of feed and hay. It's going to get ugly.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Fri Jun 24 2022 06:44 am
Arelor wrote to Kaelon <=-
Chicken food's price has multiplied by around two in a matter of thr months. That automatically refects in the prices and availability of hen derivated food. You get the idea.
Doomsayers in the US are panicked about the price of feed and hay. It's going to get ugly.
Hay is not an issue here by the moment, but only because this area is rich in grass and green stuff and we have had great weather for grass production this year. I have stockpiled hay for the whole year already and so far the deal has been fine.
Feed is getting expensive as heck since it requires grain, and grain production last year was a bit disasterous. When you add inflation it gets very ugly. One of Spain's top snack vendors has announced they are cutting down production because the amount of affordable grain is very reduced. I am not nervous about the feed because my horses have hay and pasture grass for the main part, but sporting or work horses with feed-intensive diets are in for a bad year.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
Hay is heavy. Big heavy things require fuel to move. Fuel is expensive.
Problems come when the year comes dry so not much of it
grows. Then you have to haul the hay from somewhere else or
whatever and it is a pain in the ass XD
Hello Arelor!
** On Sunday 26.06.22 - 10:52, Arelor wrote to Moondog:
Problems come when the year comes dry so not much of it
grows. Then you have to haul the hay from somewhere else or
whatever and it is a pain in the ass XD
I thought you would opt for the horsepowered version in those
circumstances not the asspowered one!
I don't think a proper war will last many years. With the debt bubble about to explode in Europe and the bank about to stop purchasing more debt from countries that need to sell debt in order not to go bankrupt, I think that if Russia is not forced to give up soon enough, a number of European countries will got "crack".
Anybody who wants to obtain a military victory over us needs not seek victory. He only has to outlasts us.
I agree that the economic picture is dire, but I don't think one can solely attribute it to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The global supply chain remains (irretrievably, according to many economists) broken on the other side of the Pandemic (which, let's face it, is not yet really over, despite everyone's best wishes). Governments printing money have created the second serious blow with radicalized inflation that is truly "cracking" the socioeconomic classes and pushing us well past the Gilded Age in terms of the gulf between haves-and-have-nots. Russia's invasion is partly responsible for a disruption in the global grain supply, but it has also galvanized both Europe and NATO as a whole by shaking it out of its delusion of a "post-war" world order.
Very true. There are deep systemic institutional problems in the European Union. But the speed with which France, Germany, and much of the EU's core countries have lept to move away from Russian gas and towards self-sustainability, not to mention radical investment in their own militaries, reflects a deep disquiet with Russia's invasion.
Furthermore, Russia has demonstrated itself to being a paper tiger. Its military failures are so vast that any outright "outlasting" of Europe will come at tremendous cost and certainly lead to its general collapse. China, on the other hand, is quite another story.
costs. This Ukraine war is a convenient scapegoat for our economic woes.
Europe scantioned itself by refusing to purchase oil and gas with Rubles. The public will remember that this winter when energy becomes unaffordable and people have to choose between heating or eating. Heck, there's even discourse regarding rolling blackouts during peak hours.
costs. This Ukraine war is a convenient scapegoat for our economic woes.
Indeed.
Europe scantioned itself by refusing to purchase oil and gas with Rubles. The public will remember that this winter when energy becomes unaffordable and people have to choose between heating or eating. Heck, there's even discourse regarding rolling blackouts during peak hours.
But, but, but, there are a couple of Europeans in the FIDO Politics echo claiming that all is wonderful on their side of the Atlantic, and that things are only bad if you are American. :)
The quantitative easing that the goverment carried out back in 2020 when they decided that almost 100% of the population would become "public workers" has finally trickled down through all the asset classes to its final resting place in consumer goods. This is why I laughed when the FED were calling the inflation transitory as there was never anything transitory about it.
Europe scantioned itself by refusing to purchase oil and gas with Rubles. The public will remember that this winter when energy becomes unaffordable and people have to choose between heating or eating. Heck, there's even discourse regarding rolling blackouts during peak hours.
China are sitting pretty right now and have already made it known that they are sympathetic towards the Russians... The West is not in a good position seeing as almost all manufacturing and production comes from The East.
But, but, but, there are a couple of Europeans in the FIDO Politics echo claiming that all is wonderful on their side of the Atlantic, and that things are only bad if you are American. :)
gas and electricity bills and we have been warned that the prices are going to increase AGAIN this winter. You Americans are complainig about the cost of fuel however we are paying close to 2.40 USD per litre of diesel -- that is almost 11 USD per gallon. The cost of everything has increased substantially and a huge proportion of the population are going to be facing poverty later this year. This is a global economic issue so no one is shielded from this.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: Dumas Walker to ANDEDDU on Thu Jul 07 2022 04:56 pm
But, but, but, there are a couple of Europeans in the FIDO Politics echo claiming that all is wonderful on their side of the Atlantic, and that things are only bad if you are American. :)
100% not true. The Eurozone is the area which is the most impacted by these political decisions. I am already paying around 2x more than normal for my g and electricity bills and we have been warned that the prices are going to increase AGAIN this winter. You Americans are complainig about the cost of f however we are paying close to 2.40 USD per litre of diesel -- that is almos 11 USD per gallon. The cost of everything has increased substantially and a huge proportion of the population are going to be facing poverty later this year. This is a global economic issue so no one is shielded from this.
---
þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
Completely agree. It's amazing to me how the primary reason that history repeats itself is that people don't understand predictable cause and effect. The quantitative easing, the constant market growth at all costs, the ceaseless bailouts -- they're a repeat of the inflationary behaviors that largely provoked the two global world wars in the early 20th Century. I often tell other kids in the SaaS companies where I work as an executive that the dot-com bust informed us who lived through it what is about to come in software, and that every other middle-manager or executive who hasn't lived through or at least studied it, is full of shit if they predict what they think this is going to look like. Half of all software companies are already insolvent because they had no fundamental underlying go-to-market strategy that was reinforced by actual inherent value streams or sustainable recurring revenue models.
It's horrifyingly naive. Look at the RUB exchange rate to the USD. Yes, it crashed during the weeks following the invasion, but it was mostly recovered by late April and now, it's higher than it has been in over five years!
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD
americans would never tollerate that. but dont test that theory because it's bad enough now. even though prices did drop a bit.
get drilling and get those truckers on the roads.
I am happy because Spain used to be a poor Fascist country, so we have plenty people with experience in how to deal with crap \o/
We rural rednecks have been the lautghing stock of the country for decades, but fact is that during Francoism, when everybody in Spain was poor, the people who lived in rural areas were the people who didn't starve. Nobody lived well - it was a Fascist country - but if you had some square meters of land and a chimney, you had enough to grow vegetables, produce your own eggs, cook it
all, and have spare heat for the house.
It is ironic but I think the people who are going to suffer the most is the people who have been voting for "inflationist" politicians in Spain. Those are typicaly concentrated in cities, and are going to have to buy their lettuces at 10 eurs per Kg. by the look of it.
americans would never tollerate that. but dont test that theory because it's bad enough now. even though prices did drop a bit.
get drilling and get those truckers on the roads.
The cost of fuel will go a lot higher this winter and nothing will stop that. Biden is selling away your oil reserves to foreign nations which is great, that'll help keep prices down!
Our leaders are at fault for repeatedly selling us out to China for the last 30 years. We've somehow gone from being an economic and manufactuing powerhouse to a hollowed out consumer based society with zero value. There is no viable plan to reduce public services or shrink goverment to a sustainable level and even during the Trump presidency I failed to see any tangible private sector growth.
Every successive goverment appears to believe they can print the difference between tax revenue and outgoings year on year without creating problems down the line. Well they are evidently wrong and the horror show numbers along with the soon-to-be massive rise in unemployment proof in the pudding.
The issue we now have is that the can has been kicked down the road for so long that there is no painless way to remedy the situation. I strongly belive that everything is going to come to a head later this year or next.
I find it amusing that Western leaders were criticising Putin for refusing to sell energy for USDs when the US sanctioned oligarchs and Russian businesses by freezing their dollar denominated bank accounts. The lack of basic awareness or understanding from our ruling class is astounding.
well biden is in bed with china so that's why.
honestly the usa has plenty of oil. i worked in the oil industry for almost 2 decades. if they are going to drill we will be fine.
with covid many companies sold out to their competitors so it might be a struggle to meet demands. they will do it, though.
There may be plenty oil but drilling for it goes against Biden's Green New Deal which is the hill he is willing to die on. He has stated several times that there will be no more drilling land or sea. None of that is very clever, if you ask me, because you need a lot of refined oil and you need it fast.
100% not true. The Eurozone is the area which is the most impacted by these political decisions. I am already paying around 2x more than normal for my gas
and electricity bills and we have been warned that the prices are going to increase AGAIN this winter. You Americans are complainig about the cost of fue
however we are paying close to 2.40 USD per litre of diesel -- that is almost 11 USD per gallon. The cost of everything has increased substantially and a huge proportion of the population are going to be facing poverty later this year. This is a global economic issue so no one is shielded from this.
americans would never tollerate that. but dont test that theory because it's bad enough now. even though prices did drop a bit.
get drilling and get those truckers on the roads.
The cost of fuel will go a lot higher this winter and nothing will stop that. Biden is selling away your oil reserves to foreign nations which is great, that'll help keep prices down!
americans would never tollerate that. but dont test that theory because it's bad enough now. even though prices did drop a bit.
get drilling and get those truckers on the roads.
The cost of fuel will go a lot higher this winter and nothing will stop that. Biden is selling away your oil reserves to foreign nations which is great, that'll help keep prices down!
Yes, he did that after telling us it was to make our prices go down.
He is asleep at the wheel and has no idea what is going on.
Yes, he did that after telling us it was to make our prices go down.
He is asleep at the wheel and has no idea what is going on.
maybe china has some videos of hunter biden killing prostitutes.
Yes, he did that after telling us it was to make our prices go down.
He is asleep at the wheel and has no idea what is going on.
maybe china has some videos of hunter biden killing prostitutes.
Here is one of him weighing his crack. Why would anyone videotape that?
https://youtu.be/Rj9V-XjCol8
Well it looks like Spain will go back to those days again for at least the next
5-6 years. With the cost of fertilizer rising and historically low crop yields
in conjunction with the war which looks likely to spread through Europe, now would be to grow your own food supply. Hard times are coming and it'll be the
pampered city folk who are going to struggle the most. I am sadly one of those
people in possession with little to no outdoor survival skills.
between tax revenue and outgoings year on year without creating problems down the line. Well they are evidently wrong and the horror show numbers along with the soon-to-be massive rise in unemployment proof in the pudding.
Once again, I agree. This short-term thinking is inherent to hyper-capitalist plann
Considering the example I gave in software, so much private equity and venture cap
I always hear Capitalism blamed for any politics involving growth at any cost, but when I talk to Keynesians I always think the concept of shorterm growth at any cost
is a Keynesian one.
Kaelon wrote to Andeddu <=-
Our leaders are at fault for repeatedly selling us out to China for the last 30 years. We've somehow gone from being an economic and manufactuing powerhouse to a hollowed out consumer based society with zero value. There is no viable plan to reduce public services or shrink goverment to a sustainable level and even during the Trump presidency I failed to see any tangible private sector growth.
I agree, and if you study root causes of our economic inter-dependence
and transformation into a consumer-only society
I had a lot of this stuff in 2008-2009. People was blaming Capitalism for caus
g the
crisis with growth at any cost politics. Then you talked to Keynesians and the
solution for the crisis was to print lots of money and give it away to the pop
ation
so they could keep on spending and spending in order to keep the consumist whe
turning.
I agree, and if you study root causes of our economic inter-dependence and transformation into a consumer-only society, the liability rests with the rise of corporate syndicates in the early 1970s after the demise of the Nixon Administration. All of the industrial and commercial infrastructure in the 1980s and 1990s, while largely responsible for dramatic technological innovation, has been solely focused on the consumer experience and hardly on the creation of systemic and inherent value streams.
Once again, I agree. This short-term thinking is inherent to hyper-capitalist planning which emphasizes quarterly results and monthly incrementalism, so as to maximize shareholder value, but results in extremely unstable businesses and countless bubbles. Considering the example I gave in software, so much private equity and venture capital behavior has been designed to build these unsustainable capitalized experiments that return "3-5x" of their value to PEs over a 24-36 month period, that when they finally enter real market conditions and start stumbling with longer-term institutional investors, they become ripe targets for acquisition and dismemberment. Richard Gere's character from "Pretty Woman" must be sitting pretty with his business model. ;)
Final note - I am in workforce management as an industry, and late last year we started seeing huge shifts that have been building for over a decade, but are unprecedented in their scale. The Pandemic, the Supply Chain Woes, the Energy Crisis, and even the Wars and geopolitical re-alignment that accompany them -- these are all symptomatic and/or aggrivating factors of a much needed realignment in our entire economic system. And its collapse will be far worse than anything anyone has ever seen, but it really didn't have to be this way. Now, however, it's too late - and all of our institutions, from our government to our financial markets, will be liquidated in this process.
The arrogance is astounding, especially when humbler and well-informed economists were pointing out really basic facts that most second-year undergraduate college students would understand: Russia is isolated and silo'ed from the entire global economic system, and despite the collaspe of the Soviet Union and the following almost-gleeful pillaging of Russia as a country by the West, the Russian Elites skillfully manipulated foreign markets to borrow money ceaselessly on extremely favorable terms, but never integrated institutional safeguards, controls, or many of the other systems that ensure Russia would become integrated. The end result: Russia is its own entity, and very little that the globe does to force Russia economically will have much bearing, considering just how isolated Russia is.
China, on the other hand, is a very different story. China gambled big on essentially joining the U.S.-led economic world order -- a fact reinforced by the countless times that China has invested in, and bailed out, the United States as the titular leader of this order -- while concurrently preserving its authoritarian political systems. It has really worked to China's benefit, considering that by and large, China's greatest asset - its population - is also it's largest liability. China would have to contend with five distinctively hostile societies that are eager to tear each other to shreds and resolve centuries of disputes that would fracture the country, if it ever adopted anything resembling a consensus-driven liberal political system.
he says one thing but does another. i dont think they've ever stopped drilling because these companies hold vouchers. they stocked up on them.
I will agree that it is global and no one is shielded.
That said, fuel has always been more expensive in Europe (and Canada, for that matter). What percentage increase is the 2.40 USD for diesel? Here, gasoline is over 4.00/gal USD, while diesel is close to 6.00/gal USD. Not sure about diesel, but that is a 2X+ increase for gasoline here. In other states, it is a whole dollar or more per gallon now beyond what it is here.
I remember driving by a poor village with the boss when he told me he had been born there. The village had a vibe of ruin and poverty. He started
talking about the old days in which nobody could afford transport and getting >on a donkey on a trip out of the valley was an adventure.
This was some years ago but I have been thinking of that conversation a lot as >of late, because I see it happening again.
Re: Re: Great Replacement The
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sun Jul 10 2022 04:20 pm
he says one thing but does another. i dont think they've ever stopped drilling because these companies hold vouchers. they stocked up on them.
I hope you're right. I would beg-to-differ though as I cannot see costs going down. The economy has tanked too much and there is far too many infastructural, geo-political and economical problems to keep the nation in a tolerable state.
I will, of course, say the same for my own country as our elites are also recklessly destructive and breathtakingly incompetent.
Kaelon wrote to Arelor <=-
Capitalism with safeguards and proper institutional regulation is necessary in order to build a long-term vision that ensures that vulnerable investors are protected from exploitation, and that
companies have to demonstrate their actual value so that informed investors can be - well, informed! Private Equity, especially in technology, is largely responsible for obfuscating real value and there
is now a reckoning where more than half of all technology companies in
the world are fundamentally insolvent.
Re: Re: Recession to Depression
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Tue Jul 12 2022 02:47 am
I remember driving by a poor village with the boss when he told me he had been born there. The village had a vibe of ruin and poverty. He started
talking about the old days in which nobody could afford transport and getting >on a donkey on a trip out of the valley was an adventure.
This was some years ago but I have been thinking of that conversation a lot as >of late, because I see it happening again.
I have been adamant over the last decade that we are living in the death throes of our civilisation. I am very disappointed that I appear to have been vindicated as being wrong would have brought me much joy. We are defnitely going back to the hard times that you speak of.
Capitalism with safeguards and proper institutional regulation is necessary in order to build a long-term vision that ensures that vulnerable investors are protected from exploitation, and that companies have to demonstrate their actual value so that informed investors can be - well, informed! Private Equity, especially in technology, is largely responsible for obfuscating real value and there is now a reckoning where more than half of all technology companies in the world are fundamentally insolvent.
This pile of nonsence is what is called "soft socialism".
"Capitalism is great, but it needs to be controlled". "Controlled" meaning run by "smart" people, usually the state, which only has people who think that they are smart.
The lame excuses of "we need to 'protect' people from exploitation" is the normal cry. In Capitalism there are risks - that's just part of life. And having the gov't "protect" people from their mistakes is just keeping them like children - and controlling them.
I've thought that for a while too, and often I've wondered whether I should think that or not. But the further that time goes on, the clearer and clearer the truth becomes, we are in a severe decline and its not just me getting older.
I think the biggest problem is lack of revolutionary though. We are stuck with old ideas, with ideology, thinking that ideology (Whether it is Capitalism or Socialism) will get us out.
I think the biggest problem is lack of revolutionary though. We are stuck with old ideas, with ideology, thinking that ideology (Whether it is Capitalism or Socialism) will get us out.
Although the ordinary man may lack revolutionary thought, I believe there is a revolution going on and we are moving in a very specific direction. It would be hard for me to belive that there is NO PLAN once our civilation collapses... there will always be a kind of contingency plan.
I spent the afternoon in Silicon Valley, went shopping at an outdoor mall I used to go to when I was a kid. We're in one of the most overpriced real estate markets, and it felt like the number of retail shops had dwindled, to be replaced by overpriced food and real estate offices. I suppose you can't afford retail any more - Amazon will eat your lunch if you're selling commodity goods and local specialty retail can't pay the exorbitant rent.
It's a shame.
This pile of nonsence is what is called "soft socialism".
"Capitalism is great, but it needs to be controlled". "Controlled" meaning run by "smart" people, usually the state, which only has people who think that they are smart.
The lame excuses of "we need to 'protect' people from exploitation" is the normal cry. In Capitalism there are risks - that's just part of life. And having the gov't "protect" people from their mistakes is just keeping them like children - and controlling them.
Absolutely. We no longer have capitalism, we have corporatism otherwise known as late-stage capitalism, which is essentially globalism. Governments are monoliths that pry into every aspect of our lives compared to half a century ago when they were serving as mere administrators. The Western economy is built on war and the dominance Middle-Eastern oil. Once the USD loses its position as the World Reserve Currency, which will no doubt happen very soon, the USA is finished.
Yep. We will see many fewer start-ups going forward now too as interest rates have to continually increase to combat inflation.
We are going to see a lot less capital going around resulting in another credit crunch. The cost of living crisis is going to wipe away the remaining small and medium sized businesses as the public are no longer going be in possession of expendable income with which to visit resturaunts, drink in bars, go on holiday and purchase luxury items. Like I mentioned before... fuel in the UK is has risen by around 80% since last year and the cost of energy has risen 2x with it being purported to increase 3x by this winter. Small and medium sized businesses are NOT going to see the other side of this and will be forced to let their workforce go resulting in mass unemployment.
Carbon Net Zero is a massive problem too and one which will seal the deal on our path to destruction.
I agree. The Russian Elites have been maneuvered themselves into a strong position and have shielded their public from the extreme hardship that will face The West's population. Their Elites are playing 4D chess while our Elites are playing Blackjack. We are getting destroyed every single day and the media can do nothing but lie and cheerlead us into what appears will become WWIII.
The Chinese are in a far better position than any Western nation as they hold the master-production for all our goods. Now that they are seriously reducing their exports to the West, we will soon experince shortages and price hikes. All Xi Jinping has to do now is unite his population by creating a new middle-class, much like the USA did during the 50s-60s, in order to secure their position as the premier world superpower. They will soon have no use for the USA's soon-to-be worthless currency which has been effectively printed into oblivion.
Boraxman wrote to Dr. What <=-
That is not socailism. It is not near socialism.
Capitalism run amok leads to exploitation and crisis because the particular forces that drive it have no countervailing force.
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
system, they should have been all allowed to fail. Where are your
cries for the lame excuses of banks and manufacturing in 2008-2009, or
for airlines, commodities traders, and real estate speculators now in
the 2020-2022 Pandemic period?
Revolution doesn't mean revolutionary thought. We could have a "revolution" where Marxist-Communists take over. That is old thought.
The problem as I see it, is that we are stuck with old ideas and cannot imagine any change. Economically, the debate seems stuck between "Capitalism" and "Socialism" (at least Socialism as envisaged by Marxist/Statists) and we think that we have to choose between the two. We can't imagine any new system or new novel ways of looking at property rights, or carrying on the evolution of our economic system further. Everything is petty. UBI changes nothing. Stakeholder Capitalism is just the same old system with a new face. Politically we are stuck again with old ideas. Nothing really new, except for maybe the SJW's, but that really is just rehashed Christian guilt.
We're looking at all these problems, and can't think of any new direction to go in to solve them. We cant imagine anything outside the "Capitalism/Communism" dichotomy, so we are limited by that. We can't imagine anything oustide of "Liberalism/Conservatism", so we are limited by that.
We need something like a new Enlightenment. One isn't coming.
It's hard to imagine another currency being preferred over the United States Dollar, but we're going to find out soon enough. The EUR probably has another 20-30% more to decline -- parity with the USD was just a start. The RUB resiliance is a local silo'ed matter, and all Asian currencies are a total disaster right now.
Arguably, many of these startups shouldn't have had access to the capital that they were able to cheaply get. Again, the short-term "syndicate corporatism," or "late-stage capitalism," as you rightly describe it, has painted myopic portraits of financial worthiness for what are, in essence, barely seed-stage proof-of-concept companies. They aren't even product companies (genuine startup material), let alone customer-centric corporations (those that are truly worthy of the public's risk-taking on the open markets). Fortunately, we're seeing a total liquidation of the bullshit SaaS industry. More than half of these companies are insolvent, and this year so far, 357 of them have laid off over 53,000 employees.
Don't even get me started on the absurdity of trying to create economic currency models to stimulate voluntary restrictions on carbon emissions. Scientifically, it's too late for humans to impact the planetary trajectory (we would have had to make drastic changes to our agricultural and early-industrial model in the 1820s, for crying out loud); but, more broadly, Economically, this sort of faux-currency and exchange of "carbon credits" is creating economies that willingly self-sabotage any form of supply-and-demand and reward cheating-countries with unfair advantages. _____
I am not sure that I actually agree that China is a far better position than any Western nation right now. Yes, economically, they've centered themselves as the world's producer. But geopolitically, they are trapped. More than 80% of Chinese territory is actually largely unusable and unsuitable terrain, and given the distribution of this terrain and its vast population, it is largely constrained and, in essence, an island. And, let's not forget, it is really at least five distinct cultures with visceral hatred towards one another.
As the global economy collapses over the next 6-12 months, China will be forced to confront its reckoning on the disasterous socioeconomic mismanagement of its population. We're not even talking about the predictable consequences of the One Child Policy - which has resulted in a material disproportion of men over women, causing everything from forced marriages and mass-rapes in the countryside to modern chattel slavery of women in the cities - but broader population control measures during this Pandemic. That latter approach has resulted in a collapse of its metropolitan economies, and the loss of global trading prestige. No one wants to attempt to enter Chinese exchanges now, not even Hong Kong (for obvious reasons). What a failure.
You should actually **read** my messages before replying to them.
No country is shielded from the global downturn but I believe China will be able to whether the storm better than most other nations. They have secured 2 years of grain supply for their entire population compared to Western nations, including the USA, who appear to have only a 6 month supply in storage. They have far better food security, more efficent energy production along with an extensive manufacturing sector.
Frankly, this is bullshit. Our economic system has had numerous safeguards for institutions and corporations - such as the "bailouts" that the government (i.e., taxpayers) ensured that big banks would receive and the even large-scale industrial corporations would receive, when their risky models folded in 2008-2009. In a true Capitalist system, they should have been all allowed to fail. Where are your cries for the lame excuses of banks and manufacturing in 2008-2009, or for airlines, commodities traders, and real estate speculators now in the 2020-2022 Pandemic period?
Let them all fail. And then we can talk about the "lame excuses" of the very valid truth that corporations have co-opted our political institutions. This isn't Capitalism, Dr. What. This is syndicate corporatism. And that's not what entrepreneurial people and innovators signed up for.
_____
That is not socailism. It is not near socialism.
Which is the standard response from the socialists.
"No, this isn't socialism. It's just gov't control over the markets."
particular forces that drive it have no countervailing force.
Right out of Marx. Did you quote that directly, or just paraphrase?
Revolution doesn't mean revolutionary thought. We could have a "revolution" where Marxist-Communists take over. That is old thought.
The problem as I see it, is that we are stuck with old ideas and cannot imagine any change. Economically, the debate seems stuck between "Capitalism" and "Socialism" (at least Socialism as envisaged by Marxist/Statists) and we think that we have to choose between the two.
We can't imagine any new system or new novel ways of looking at property rights, or carrying on the evolution of our economic system further. Everything is petty. UBI changes nothing. Stakeholder Capitalism is just the same old system with a new face. Politically we are stuck again with old ideas. Nothing really new, except for maybe the SJW's, but that really is just rehashed Christian guilt.
We're looking at all these problems, and can't think of any new direction to go in to solve them. We cant imagine anything outside the "Capitalism/Communism" dichotomy, so we are limited by that. We can't imagine anything oustide of "Liberalism/Conservatism", so we are limited by that.
We need something like a new Enlightenment. One isn't coming.
I don't disagree but I see Capitalism/Communism as two sides of the same system with us presently in the phase where Eastern Communism merges with Western Capitalism which will be destined to collapse into the new world system.
There will always be the haves and the have nots, elites and non-elites. This will occur in all systems old or new which have been authorised for our use.
Re: Re: Recession to Depression
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Jul 16 2022 02:38 pm
Revolution doesn't mean revolutionary thought. We could have a "revoluti where Marxist-Communists take over. That is old thought.
The problem as I see it, is that we are stuck with old ideas and cannot imagine any change. Economically, the debate seems stuck between "Capitalism" and "Socialism" (at least Socialism as envisaged by Marxist/Statists) and we think that we have to choose between the two. W can't imagine any new system or new novel ways of looking at property rights, or carrying on the evolution of our economic system further. Everything is petty. UBI changes nothing. Stakeholder Capitalism is jus the same old system with a new face. Politically we are stuck again with old ideas. Nothing really new, except for maybe the SJW's, but that real is just rehashed Christian guilt.
We're looking at all these problems, and can't think of any new direction go in to solve them. We cant imagine anything outside the "Capitalism/Communism" dichotomy, so we are limited by that. We can't imagine anything oustide of "Liberalism/Conservatism", so we are limited that.
We need something like a new Enlightenment. One isn't coming.
I don't disagree but I see Capitalism/Communism as two sides of the same sys with us presently in the phase where Eastern Communism merges with Western Capitalism which will be destined to collapse into the new world system.
There will always be the haves and the have nots, elites and non-elites. Thi will occur in all systems old or new which have been authorised for our use.
Boraxman wrote to Dr. What <=-
"No, this isn't socialism. It's just gov't control over the markets."
They is actually more akin to fascism.
Besides, modern "Capitalism" is control over the economy by a few
anyway.
You have to show how it is WRONG. Just saying that Marx might have
said something like that doesn't prove or disprove anything.
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
It was rhetorical. I wasn't talking about "you, Dr. What," I was
talking about "you," the arch-capitalist defending the current
nonsense.
The problem as I see it, is that we are stuck with old
ideas and cannot imagine any change. Economically, the
debate seems stuck between "Capitalism" and "Socialism" (at
least Socialism as envisaged by Marxist/Statists) and we
think that we have to choose between the two. We can't
imagine any new system or new novel ways of looking at
property rights, or carrying on the evolution of our
economic system further. Everything is petty. UBI changes
nothing. Stakeholder Capitalism is just the same old
system with a new face. Politically we are stuck again
with old ideas. Nothing really new, except for maybe the
SJW's, but that really is just rehashed Christian guilt.
We need something like a new Enlightenment. One isn't
coming.
You seem to have a strange idea that what we have today is Capitalism. It's not. Because of all the gov't "regulations" and other elitist interference, it's closer to Socialism - hence the problems you are rallying against.
They is actually more akin to fascism.
Which is a form of socialism.
The ignorant words of Marx. He has a great deal to say about how an economy works - even though he never worked a day in his life.
And if all you are going to do is quote the ignorant words of Marx, that is
not showing that you are right.
And I was talking about not seeing things that I didn't write.
You seem to have a strange idea that what we have today is Capitalism. It's not. Because of all the gov't "regulations" and other elitist interference, it's closer to Socialism - hence the problems you are rallying against.
Not many people think in terms of when enough is enough.
Sounds like there are some interesting thoughts by these
people:
[o] The Future is Degrowth: A Guide to a World Beyond
Capitalism | Paperback
Matthias Schmelzer | Andrea Vetter | Aaron Vansintjan
Verso Books | Verso
Political Science / Political Economy / Public Policy - Environmental Policy / History & Theory
Published Jun 28, 2022
"This book provides a vision for postcapitalism beyond growth.
Building on a vibrant field of research, it discusses the
political economy and the politics of a non-growing economy. It
charts a path forward through policies that democratise the
economy, "now-topias" that create free spaces for
experimentation, and counter-hegemonic movements that make it
possible to break with the logic of growth. Degrowth
perspectives offer a way to step off the treadmill of an
alienating, expansionist, and hierarchical system."
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
I am in agreement. We're in a Corporatist Dystopia, not in a genuine Capitalist structure. I've started a separate thread with Boraxxman to this extent, and encourage your thoughts here. Is there any way to
unwind this madness in which we find ourselves? Or is it too late?
Boraxman wrote to Dr. What <=-
Whatever definition of Socialism you have in mind, must be so broad
that it captures everything but your preferred 'ideal'. Which isn't really a useful definition at all.
OK, so everyone who has extolled the virtues of the Free Market, who
I didn't quote Marx. Show me which of Marx's quotes or words I used.
I'm not even a Marxist.
Boraxman wrote to Dr. What <=-
Pray tell, which countries ARE Capitalst then? Is there even ONE?
It's never too late. But the longer we stay in this mess, the longer it will take to get out. We already have a couple generations of young people who have been miseducated into thinking that socialism can actually work (despite the mountains of evidence showing otherwise).
Not anymore. We used to have one, but then people like you wrecked it.
But that's normal: The Left ruins everything it touches.
I see we have another miseducated person here. I suggest that you actually read history - especially the areas of Italy, Germany and Russia just before WWII.
Ignoring the usual ignorant strawman people like you make: Take what I say to an illogical extreme then claim I'm wrong because of that.
You did. But you not knowing you did shows your ignorance. Until you've overcome that ignorance, it's not possible to discuss anything with you.
This is part of the problem with people like you: You "discuss" from a point of "I'm right. Period." without entertaining the idea that you might be wrong.
So instead of listening, doing your own research, etc. and seeing for yourself, you expect the person that you argue with to do all the research (and wasting their time and energy) just for you to say "I don't agree."
Not anymore. We used to have one, but then people like you wrecked it.
But that's normal: The Left ruins everything it touches.
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
I wonder what can be done at this stage of Corporate Syndicate control
to unwind this affair? Is it re-education of young people re: the socialist or nationalized / syndicate control schemes that exist today
and why they are actually bad? Is it the creation of a true Capitalist system somewhere else that can show it works better? (Kind of like how the American Colonies demonstrated a lighter hand of capitalism could out-perform English Mercantilism?)
Or are we looking at something more revolutionary in store for our societies across the globe?
Margaerynne wrote to Dr. What <=-
When? During the 80s, when grants and high taxes subsidized education
for many Americans?
During the 60s and 70s when union membership was significantly higher?
During the 90s, when the government was tossing money at anyone who
"knew the cyber"?
Go on, say something firm that you can be fact-checked on. None of
this "Oh, it happened somewhere somewhen, but I can't say it [because
then that'd be committing to a truth]" nonsense.
Go on, say something firm that you can be fact-checked on. None of this "Oh, it happened somewhere somewhen, but I can't say it [because then that'd be committing to a truth]" nonsense.
I'll throw that right back at you. Show me a Leftie program that actually did what they claimed it would. Because
their track record shows that no such program exists.
Both need to be done.
We need to get the gov't out of business. They should not regulate to the extent that they do (why do I need to ask the gov't for permission to run a business?, for example). They should not pick the winners and losers.
But if we don't have a populace that thinks that big gov't is a bad idea, then they will keep electing the elitists who created the mess that we have today.
Or are we looking at something more revolutionary in store for our societies across the globe?
And that's a good question. Not something that I can assess. With America descending, that opens the possibilities that some other countries may take over.
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Dr. What to Kaelon on Sun Jul 17 2022 02:12 pm
You should actually **read** my messages before replying to them.
It was rhetorical. I wasn't talking about "you, Dr. What," I was talking about "you
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-
---
þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
Not many people think in terms of when enough is enough.
Sounds like there are some interesting thoughts by these
people:
[o] The Future is Degrowth: A Guide to a World Beyond
Capitalism | Paperback
Matthias Schmelzer | Andrea Vetter | Aaron Vansintjan
Verso Books | Verso
Political Science / Political Economy / Public Policy - Environmental Policy / Hist
Published Jun 28, 2022
"This book provides a vision for postcapitalism beyond growth.
Building on a vibrant field of research, it discusses the
political economy and the politics of a non-growing economy. It
charts a path forward through policies that democratise the
economy, "now-topias" that create free spaces for
experimentation, and counter-hegemonic movements that make it
possible to break with the logic of growth. Degrowth
perspectives offer a way to step off the treadmill of an
alienating, expansionist, and hierarchical system."
They is actually more akin to fascism.
Which is a form of socialism.
What? Seriously, what??!
Whatever definition of Socialism you have in mind, must be so broad that it capture
Actually, the arch-capitalists were the ones saying to let the failed banks crash and rot, or if any institution was not willing to do that, to arrange a solution for a profit.
Here in Spain we had lots of banks buying crashed banks because of their customer portfolio.
Margaerynne wrote to Dr. What <=-
I asked you first, Senator. The question was "Can you give a concrete example of what you claimed?"
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
Completely agree. Also consider the limited areas where a national government should legitimately function - such as defense,
infrastructure, conducting an equitable and non-entangling foreign
policy - and we quickly see where our vast Federal Institutions have failed our people. I forget where I read this, but aren't something
like a third of all bridges and roads in the United States on the verge
of collapse? What a disgrace.
Libertarianism has a long way to go to educate people about the
personal responsibility necessary to cultivate a truly civic-minded society.
You and I both. I don't have especially high hopes for any other Anglo-Saxon or Nordic Country, considering the entire Commonwealth has veered towards socialist principles and even the most promising candidate-countries - like Australia - are positively leftist and
bloated in comparison to what I would expect of a true capitalist
system.
That said, I fear that the United States' socioeconomic decline and impending political collapse will not, conversely, equate to a real geopolitical decline in our standing in the world. After all, the
United States has the most enviable position on the planet - geographically capable of dominating both the Atlantic and Pacific
Oceans, dictating the circumstances of global trade unlike any other country, and topographically capable of harvesting vast natural
resources to achieve its organizational aims.
What our next
global order will be, however, terrifies me, and I can only pray we
will long be gone before we have to live through it (or under it).
Road funding is interesting. Speaking about the Interstate road system:
+ Taxes are collected locally.
+ Sent to the Federal Gov't.
+ Who then doles it back out to the states to "maintain the Interstate" in their own states.
But (like here in Michigan) the governors use that money to fund social programs instead. And the unions suck a great deal of that money up as well to "fix" the roads.
That's really the job of the public education system. But the Elites have destroyed that.
Surprisingly, it seems that the USSR is poised to be the economic powerhouse of the future.
I believe that matters less when many countries have missiles that can hit anywhere on the planet. And to be militarily dominant, you need a well-equiped military. But to get that, you have to have an economic engine capable of doing that.
Remember: The USSR fell mainly because we caused them to over spend militarily.
And I don't waste my time and energy on people who refuse to look for themselves.Then I'll continue living as I've been, unconvinced of the point you won't even put the effort into substantiating.
Science is a lie.
Truth is relative.
People cannot be trusted.
Arelor wrote to Kaelon <=-
Actually, the arch-capitalists were the ones saying to let the failed banks crash and rot, or if any institution was not willing to do that,
to arrange a solution for a profit.
In practical terms, this shows when Western Socialists are seen trying to prov
e
Socialism for everybody (such as immigrants or poor people not related to the country)
while Fascists want Socialism for nationals only.
- Science is a lie.
- Truth is all relative.
- People cannot be trusted.
It would also seem that some of the people who point to "science" in some instances believe it to be relative, like truth, in others.
Actually, you can trust people. You will get a knife in between your ribs if you make such mistake, though.
Doubts cast on Truth and Science originate from the fact that most people does not use primary sources to inform themselves and rely on other people (who cannot be trusted) for that.
Kaelon wrote to Dr. What <=-
It's a very strong indictment of the quaintness of our federalist
system. Our institutions have veered so far from Hamilton and Madison that the way in which the Federal Government and States interact monetarily is a profane "saving the phenomenon" that doesn't ultimately benefit constituents or citizens at any level.
In Massachusetts, like much of the Northeast, we deal with a typical inbalance. We pay far more in taxes - both locally and federally - than
we receive back in services. The Federal Government redistributes
income taxes collected to poorer and less developed regions of the country.
Elitists. And now, we have a vastly stupid population that believes things like:
- Science is a lie.
- Truth is all relative.
- People cannot be trusted.
Welcome to 1984.
the West, at least, not anytime soon. You rightly point out that our Strategic Defense Initiative, and other intense military spending under President Reagan, precipitated the Soviet Union's collapse. But this
was possible less due to financial systematic reasons, and much more
due to the limited resources available to Russia to actually marshal
and harness production capabilities to match the rest of the Western Alliance.
I completely agree. The United States is so far ahead of the rest of
the world - not just in sheer military capacity, but also in absolute military technology and innovation
Margaerynne wrote to Dr. What <=-
Then I'll continue living as I've been, unconvinced of the point you won't even put the effort into substantiating.
Not the most desirable outcome for a debate, I'm sure, but it's the
only one you seem capable of achieving. Anything else would require
proof ;)
Oh, ya. But I figured that the Elitists and their hangers-on have been slowly perverting the system since the start.
Sometimes they overstep and get caught, but not often enough.
And it's made worse because a good chunk of that money is skimmed off by various people through the process. Contracts to do something given to a buddy, for example. Grants made to others, which kick the money back in the form of political donations. Etc.
Plus what they claim to be "science" is not science, but rather the musings of the Ignorant Elitists who happen to have a worthless degree.
Postmodernism has been around a long time. Mostly in the ignorant "intellectual" classes.
A general breakdown of society helps them seize power.
Maybe closer to "Atlas Shrugged".
But my point was that we basially had a "military spending war" and we won because we had more money to spend. If we have less, such a war isn't going to turn out good for us.
But we are squandering that lead. The amount of wokeness in the military is truely alarming.
Actually, you can trust people. You will get a knife in between your ribs you make such mistake, though.
No doubt, but there is an inherent cost to the fabric of civilization when y in our civilization.
[o] The Future is Degrowth: A Guide to a World Beyond
Capitalism | Paperback
Matthias Schmelzer | Andrea Vetter | Aaron Vansintjan
Haven't heard of this book, but it seems like one that is
worth adding to my reading queue. [...]
to consume less, but we have little choice with regards to
production. Most people are employed, and the company is
controlled by a few who choose how much is produced, and we
have to produce in excess to take part in the economy, to
pay rent, buy a house.
It would also seem that some of the people who point to "science" in some instances believe it to be relative, like truth, in others.
Very true. U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) once famously said "You
re entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts."
ery eloquent corollary to the Federalist Papers where Alexander Hamilton summa
zes the dilemma with our Republic - it only works with a well-educated populat
n. Little wonder, then, how we've arrived at the current dilemma.
What? Seriously, what??!
Whatever definition of Socialism you have in mind, must be so broad that it capture
If you check the political programs of actual Fascist groups, you will notice they areMany Western Socialists are Marxist in nature, or more specifically, Trotskyites
Socialist programs.
The main difference between a Fascist State and a Communist State is that Communism
does what it does in the name of The Workers while Fascists do for Our Country.
In practical terms, this shows when Western Socialists are seen trying to provide
Socialism for everybody (such as immigrants or poor people not related to the country)
while Fascists want Socialism for nationals only.
--
Yes. And I am in full agreement with the concept that true Capitalism, without institutional interference but with some basic safeguards to ensure that consolidation to exploit consumers is restricted, has to have clear risks to match their rewards. Banks have enjoyed vast profits with almost no real risk of collapse.
True Capitalism would have allowed all of the banks to fail. And would have never allowed such a thing as "too big to fail" to exist. But, as we've discussed elsewhere, the Western Global Order is not capitalist. It is a Corporate Syndicate that reflects the consolidation of economic and political pillars in our society stemming from the Post-War Order.
_____
The idea is that if a business fails, you free up the capital for a new business built on stronger foundations/ideals. You don't patch a sinking ship, you build a better ship.
I would think that if/when people can be satisfied by consuming
less, then production/imports wouldn't be an issue.. and all of
us would settle into a 3 or 4-day work week.
Fascism is only "Socialism" in that the state runs things, but the state doe commerce and production. This is the kind of sophistry that allows North Ko Socialism, only the propagandist elements of anti-Capitalist thought.
Fascism is only "Socialism" in that the state runs things, but the state doesn
represent the will of the people. It is on paper perhaps socialism, but in p
ctice totalitarianism. The public don't really have any practical rights to c
trol industry, commerce and production. This is the kind of sophistry that al
ws North Korea to proclaim itself Democratic. I mean, the ruling dynasty is t
head of the people, right? Some of Hitlers writing sounded positively Marxis
but there was never any real Socialism, only the propagandist elements of ant
Capitalist thought.
The thing is that when I run into your average Humanist who thinks we should all love each other like brothers,the first idea that comes to mind is that person has never stepped out of his ivory tower.
It is when you decopuple work from profit that things go very wrong. For example, if you pay your constructor contractor in advance, you are in for a world of pain, because the contractor has a very weak incentive to perform well now he has the money - money he will use to work for somebody else who has not paid already.
Success comes from realizing that most people will backstab you for a bag of chewing gum and keeping a close circle of trustworthy friends from the 5% that would not murder their mothers for pocket change.
What *IS* true Capitalism? Serious question. IT seems to me like saying if we has TRUE Christianity then.... That just invites debate as to which is the true Christianity. Is it the Catholics, the Orthodox, Jehovah's Witnesses?
I'd argue that no State represents the will of the people, and therefore, any Socialist State does not represent the will of the people either. Therefore, according to your logic, Socialism is not Socialism (which is absurd).
Fascism didn't make a flag from authoritarism. It made a flag of principles such as not leaveing anybody behind, organizing strategic industries in Unions in order to preserve everybody's rights, and improving the standing of everybody by improving the standing of the nation (because the nation is the people).
Spanish Fascism stablished lots of Socialists programs still in use today, such as Social Security and State funded housing for the poor, because General Franco was the benevolent overseer who ensured not one of us was left behind.
Of course, if you disliked Franco or the vertical Unions, you disliked Spain and therefore you disliked every Spaniard. As such, you were a Communist traitor and we had to shoot you in order to protect our rights.
Socialism and, especially its cousin Communism, are only socialism on paper also. In practice, they are also usually totalitarian and certainly are not really the will of the people. North Korea is a good example. The Stalinist USSR, Maoist China, and Venezuela are also good examples.
First of all, I would never advance dogma as part of a central truth.
Truths have factual elements born from observation and experimentation to establish their systems of tautology. Dogma would advance absolutes regardless of facts, and the idea that "Capitalism must look exactly like this in order for it to be qualified as capitalism," is misguided zealotry, at best.
Capitalism's central tautological tenets, therefore, have been borne out through history, and I understand them to be as follows, at their "core":
1. Free Markets, open to easy and unencumbered entrance by new players, to spur genuine competition so that customers have comparable choices and companies have incentives to innovate.
2. Anti-Trust, so that large companies do not consolidate the marketplace to eliminate the possibility of new entrants from competing or limit the choices that consumers have when determining what to purchase.
3. Transparency, in understanding the way in which companies are managing their businesses so that shareholders can make informed decisions about where to invest and how to cast votes.
4. Accountability, in ensuring that for every reward gained there is a proportional and real risk endured in the marketplace by its actors, and that success is rewarded and failure accordingly punished.
5. Openness, in ensuring that government does not interfere in the participation in its market by creating favored winners or losers, but whose only laws and regulations exist to enforce the above characteristics.
Those are my views. What do you think? Capitalism shouldn't be a religion. It should be a constant civic virtue to make the system work through freedom, anti-trust, transparency, risk-and-reward, and institutional openness.
_____
It would be like me talking about 'cats', and you imagining house cats when I'
referring to Lions and Jaguars.
The Bruce Schneier book "Liars and Outliars" comes to mind. He goes over wh most people are honest, why a few people are almost always dishonest, and wh honest people will sometimes be dishonest. It's actually quite interesting.
But I disagree with your idea that people are inherently untrustworthy. The are completely trustworthy: to do what is in **their**, not **your**, best interests. Once you understand that, you don't do things like always pay upfront, for example.
Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-
That is all good in paper.
My observation from playing hundres of board games is that people is actually very bad at deciding for the best option for themselves and
that there are lots of arbitrary psychological factors kicking in. This also applies in real life in spades, but I bring up board games because the impact is measurable.
Fast forward to real life, I can tell so many stories about people backstabbing a third party for 3000 EUR of benefit when a deal between
the two would have made them tens of thousand of Euro. It is freaking nuts.
This applies in so many fields of life. Jack has hut where he throws parties with friends. One day the wind damages the roof very badly and Jack asks for friends for help in order to get it repaired, because
Jack is one-handed and has a wooden peg for a leg. Game theory dictates
that at least one of Jack's friends will help out, because for a
limited investment, everybody will get to continue having parties in Jack's hut. What happens is that everyone of Jack friends stays at home bored forever more because they don't want to spend the meagrest of resources, usually because they never gave a damn for Jack to being
with.
I would argue that Jack didn't have friends. He had a bunch of users who to advantage of him. He was willfully ignorant if he couldn't see that.
The problem with board games is that they are games. Is a person who stands lose their imaginary sword going to play the game the same way if they were going to lose their car? No.
This applies in so many fields of life. Jack has hut where he throws parties with friends. One day the wind damages the roof very badly and Jack asks for friends for help in order to get it repaired, because Jack is one-handed and has a wooden peg for a leg. Game theory dictates
that at least one of Jack's friends will help out, because for a limited investment, everybody will get to continue having parties in Jack's hut. What happens is that everyone of Jack friends stays at home bored forever more because they don't want to spend the meagrest of
And you are ignoring the many instances of "barn raising" and how communities come together to help each other in times of need.
Here is the thing:
No Capitalist has an issue with anybody setting up a cooperative as you describe. In fact no Capitalists would object if you managed to run a whole territory on cooperatives alone, as you describe.
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Dr. What to Arelor on Mon Jul 25 2022 08:32 am
This applies in so many fields of life. Jack has hut where he throws parties with friends. One day the wind damages the roof very badly a Jack asks for friends for help in order to get it repaired, because Jack is one-handed and has a wooden peg for a leg. Game theory dicta
that at least one of Jack's friends will help out, because for a limited investment, everybody will get to continue having parties in Jack's hut. What happens is that everyone of Jack friends stays at h bored forever more because they don't want to spend the meagrest of
this is the 'hare with many friends' aesop fable.
And you are ignoring the many instances of "barn raising" and how communities come together to help each other in times of need.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Here is the thing:
No Capitalist has an issue with anybody setting up a cooperative as you describe. In fact no Capitalists would object if you managed to run a whol territory on cooperatives alone, as you describe.
They don't like if if you are trying to force them into participating in one. That is one thing that confuses me... there are some people who
really want us to go to a cooperative or socialist model for our whole economy. However, if I point out that it would be fine if they want to get a bunch of like-minded people together and form one for themselves, they
are not at all interested in doing so.
Their interest seems to mostly be in forcing others to do something they don't want to.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Cool! I broke his brain!" - Bart on Principal Skinner
Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-
I agree. My point is precisely that actual friends you can rely on for anything, even if trivial, are much, much more scarce than people
think.
A funny thing is that University Mafias are composed of people who are
not friends to each other but actualy cover for each other. You can
tell of Cathedratics who don't like somebody, yet they still do favors
to that person in order to get the favor in return later.
Meanwhile, a
lot of average folks don't get that relationships have a maintenance
cost and if you are not contributing at all you will get eventually cut out.
MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-
And you are ignoring the many instances of "barn raising" and how communities come together to help each other in times of need.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-
They don't like if if you are trying to force them into participating
in one. That is one thing that confuses me... there are some people
who really want us to go to a cooperative or socialist model for our
whole economy.
However, if I point out that it would be fine if they
want to get a bunch of like-minded people together and form one for themselves, they are not at all interested in doing so.
Their interest seems to mostly be in forcing others to do something
they don't want to.
Dr. What wrote to MRO <=-
And you are ignoring the many instances of "barn raising" and how communities come together to help each other in times of need.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The fallacy in moving to a socialist model is everyone has to do their part. Everybody capable of working will have a job, regardless of how desirable or undesirable. If you want to go to school to lbecome a liberal arts major, it may or may not happen based on the society's need for it. If there is a need for floor sweepers, you may become one of the most educated of the floor sweepers. In China, they restrict travel of residents in farming communities so they will not walk away from the fields in order to work a factory job. Socialism may not be that stripped down, however the job you want may not be the job you like. Social assistance will not a bunch of giveaways, either.
However, if I point out that it would be fine if they
want to get a bunch of like-minded people together and form one for themselves, they are not at all interested in doing so.
That's because they are useless people. They want others to do the work (sinc
they incapable) and they want to reap the benefits (namely to not have to actually do work anymore).
Their interest seems to mostly be in forcing others to do something
they don't want to.
Their interest is the same as a scammer: How little work can I do to get something from someone else?
that doesn't happen anymore.
Explain Habitat for Humanities, and what they do.
MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-
And you are ignoring the many instances of "barn raising" and how communities come together to help each other in times of need.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
... copy *.txt > brain
We've probably discussed this before, but most of the pro-socialist persons I know do not understand this. They seem to believe that they will still be able to pursue their dreams of being able-bodied and having a liberal arts major while doing nothing. I suspect that some of them hope to gain favor from, or even a cushy government position from, those who would be in charge.
I believe that a vast majority of them would be in for a rude awakening.
The fallacy in moving to a socialist model is everyone has to do their par Everybody capable of working will have a job, regardless of how desirable undesirable. If you want to go to school to lbecome a liberal arts major, may or may not happen based on the society's need for it. If there is a n for floor sweepers, you may become one of the most educated of the floor sweepers. In China, they restrict travel of residents in farming communit so they will not walk away from the fields in order to work a factory job. Socialism may not be that stripped down, however the job you want may not the job you like. Social assistance will not a bunch of giveaways, either
We've probably discussed this before, but most of the pro-socialist persons I know do not understand this. They seem to believe that they will still
be able to pursue their dreams of being able-bodied and having a liberal arts major while doing nothing. I suspect that some of them hope to gain favor from, or even a cushy government position from, those who would be in charge.
I believe that a vast majority of them would be in for a rude awakening.
* SLMR 2.1a * "I didn't know chicks in videos wore underpants!"- Beavis
I believe that a vast majority of them would be in for a rude awakening.
A lot of people will be in for a rude awakening if the United States ever beco
s a socialist country. I have had family that came from behind the Iron curti
after world war 2. I have had friends that have come from socialist countries e to all sorts of issues that are a result of a communist / socialist country.
know people that have immigrated here to the us legally and they are terrifie
that it will happen here as well beacuse they see it starting to happen here
that doesn't happen anymore.
Explain Habitat for Humanities, and what they do.
you need to look deeper into that.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Explain Habitat for Humanities, and what they do.
you need to look deeper into that.
I am not sure about their international organization but, locally, they
team up with churches and private businesses to build homes for people who could not otherwise afford a mortgage. Those persons do still have to make payments... the house is not free but is more affordable than other homes.
that doesn't happen anymore.
Explain Habitat for Humanities, and what they do.
you need to look deeper into that.
I am not sure about their international organization but, locally, they
team up with churches and private businesses to build homes for people who could not otherwise afford a mortgage. Those persons do still have to make payments... the house is not free but is more affordable than other homes.
Several years ago, a tornado went through a town in Arkansas. The only homes left standing were HoH homes because they were the only ones built to the latest code.
* SLMR 2.1a * Keep your stick on the ice
Not sure how that works after the houses were built, but I do know one of the house our H4H volunteers at the place I worked at was for a lady whose kids were finally at an age where she could go to work, and she was provided supplemental education from the local junior college to provide certs to prove she had employable skills. The family had to help in building the house, and the families have to go through a selection process so the home
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Jul 27 2022 04:14 pm
that doesn't happen anymore.
Explain Habitat for Humanities, and what they do.
you need to look deeper into that.
I am not sure about their international organization but, locally, they team up with churches and private businesses to build homes for people wh could not otherwise afford a mortgage. Those persons do still have to ma payments... the house is not free but is more affordable than other homes
some people arent meant to own homes. every Hfh home i know of has been sold off to someone else.
and pretty damn soon too.
Canada's healthcare system is a good example of limitations of services.
Some US cities have multiple hospitals and clinics that may provide
or advanced radiology services. In Canada you might have to drive 100 miles to another city. Second opinions requiring a drastic change in treatmenrt may not be approved. The service you receive will be the best for the budget they provide, but don't ask for more.
I am not sure about their international organization but, locally, they team up with churches and private businesses to build homes for people who could not otherwise afford a mortgage. Those persons do still have to make
payments... the house is not free but is more affordable than other homes.
some people arent meant to own homes. every Hfh home i know of has been sold off to someone else.
and pretty damn soon too.
Not sure how that works after the houses were built, but I do know one of the house our H4H volunteers at the place I worked at was for a lady whose kids were finally at an age where she could go to work, and she was provided supplemental education from the local junior college to provide certs to prove she had employable skills. The family had to help in building the house, and the families have to go through a selection process so the home
is going to someone who can sustain a home and keep it up versus giving a hood rat a new crack house.
One year we had Jimmy Carter and his wife come out and help build some houses in a new community project. Several old rotting houses were torn down and replaced by modern housing built up to code. He was still protected by Secret Service, and instead of looking like extras from Men in Black, they were wearing polo shirts, jeans, and work boots.
Very true. That doesn't mean people should stop offering help to those that need a chance to make their live's better. HfH recipients are required to provide "sweat equity" and help build other homes, and very few qualify. They cannot do any major renovations to the homes until they pay the mortage off, and must notify HfH if they decide to sell the house. Nice part is interest rate is 0%.
I was talking to a born-Canadian once who volunteered to serve in the US Army. It seems like we are often seeing news articles here in the US that give the VA healthcare system a black eye, but he told me he takes
advantage of his VA benefits, as a US veteran, and not his Canadian government-provided benefits. He said that, in his opinion, the VA (and US care in general) was better than what he could get at home.
Exactly. I have a family member who has been involved with H4H, participating on the building crews, for years now. They don't initially help just anyone get a home. They do have to help in building it, and they do have to go through a selection process.
Not sure how that works after the houses were built, but I do know one of house our H4H volunteers at the place I worked at was for a lady whose kid were finally at an age where she could go to work, and she was provided supplemental education from the local junior college to provide certs to prove she had employable skills. The family had to help in building the house, and the families have to go through a selection process so the home is going to someone who can sustain a home and keep it up versus giving a hood rat a new crack house.
Exactly. I have a family member who has been involved with H4H, participating on the building crews, for years now. They don't initially help just anyone get a home. They do have to help in building it, and they do have to go through a selection process.
One year we had Jimmy Carter and his wife come out and help build some hou in a new community project. Several old rotting houses were torn down and replaced by modern housing built up to code. He was still protected by Secret Service, and instead of looking like extras from Men in Black, they were wearing polo shirts, jeans, and work boots.
I am guessing that Jimmy puts them to work. :) 20+ years ago, Carter was here in KY working with a similar group in an event called "Hammering in
the Hills" where they were building homes in poorer areas of Appalachia.
Jimmy Carter was not great as a President when it comes to economics, but
he is one of the few recent ones that has really put an effort behind
trying to make lives better for people.
* SLMR 2.1a * What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind!
Indeed. Carter is better know for what he did outside the office than when he was in the office.
One of the my teachers was a member of the Sotuhwest Michigan Economics Club, and each month they would bring in a speaker. He attended the time Carter spoke. He liked Carter becuase there were times when Carter failed, but was also ahead of the curve when it came to energy conservation.
After the speech, the line was long for getting autographs, so he went tothe restroom first. While finishing up a tthe urinal, a Secret Serviceman came in, checked all the stalls, then gave the "all clear" for Carter to use the
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Jul 28 2022 11:00 am
Very true. That doesn't mean people should stop offering help to those t need a chance to make their live's better. HfH recipients are required to provide "sweat equity" and help build other homes, and very few qualify. They cannot do any major renovations to the homes until they pay the mort off, and must notify HfH if they decide to sell the house. Nice part is interest rate is 0%.
nobody ever gave me any help so why should other people have it easy? especially when they arent cut out for it after getting so many handouts.
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Thu Jul 28 2022 04:25 pm
Exactly. I have a family member who has been involved with H4H, participating on the building crews, for years now. They don't initially help just anyone get a home. They do have to help in building it, and th do have to go through a selection process.
no only do some people not have what it takes to OWN a home, not many people
Exactly. I have a family member who has been involved with H4H, participating on the building crews, for years now. They don't initially help just anyone get a home. They do have to help in building it, and they
do have to go through a selection process.
no only do some people not have what it takes to OWN a home, not many people h
e what it takes to help build a home.
nobody ever gave me any help so why should other people have it easy? especially when they arent cut out for it after getting so many handouts.
The objective is to get people who are on the verge of no longer needing handouts out of that trap and back into regular society. If you didn't need help, no one will lend you a hand. Easy is a relative term. When people are born, the cards may already ben stacked against them. Some have to climb further up the rope to get clear of rising water. They might have to fight their own peers pulling them down.
Re: Re: Recession to Depressi
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Jul 29 2022 11:31 am
nobody ever gave me any help so why should other people have it easy? especially when they arent cut out for it after getting so many handou
The objective is to get people who are on the verge of no longer needing handouts out of that trap and back into regular society. If you didn't n help, no one will lend you a hand. Easy is a relative term. When people are born, the cards may already ben stacked against them. Some have to climb further up the rope to get clear of rising water. They might have fight their own peers pulling them down.
that's just a bunch of words without meaning. i got myself out of the hole. other people can do that too.
Over the years, I have known people who lived behind the Iron Curtain, as well as that have fled Vietnam and mainland China. As you may have noticed, when you mention such people to any of your "friends" that hope for our country to become socialist/communist, they will downplay their experiences, as if it was their fault that they did not "enjoy" life in such a place.
Some of them must live in a dreamworld.
Over the years, I have known people who lived behind the Iron Curtain, as well as that have fled Vietnam and mainland China. As you may have noticed, when you mention such people to any of your "friends" that hope for our country to become socialist/communist, they will downplay their experiences, as if it was their fault that they did not "enjoy" life in such a place.
Some of them must live in a dreamworld.
Brokenmind wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Over the years, I have known people who lived behind the Iron Curtain, as well as that have fled Vietnam and mainland China. As you may have noticed, when you mention such people to any of your "friends" that hope for our country to become socialist/communist, they will downplay their experiences, as if it was their fault that they did not "enjoy" life in such a place.
Some of them must live in a dreamworld.
A dreamworld / another reality / or not able to be open and
transparent and will get offened if corrected thats alot of the
problem in todays world also.
Quoting Gamgee to Brokenmind <=-
Brokenmind wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Over the years, I have known people who lived behind the Iron Curtain, as well as that have fled Vietnam and mainland China. As you may have noticed, when you mention such people to any of your "friends" that hope for our country to become socialist/communist, they will downplay their experiences, as if it was their fault that they did not "enjoy" life in such a place.
Some of them must live in a dreamworld.
A dreamworld / another reality / or not able to be open and
transparent and will get offened if corrected thats alot of the
problem in todays world also.
Spelling and grammar are some other major problems in today's world.
... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
Cougar428 wrote to GAMGEE <=-
A dreamworld / another reality / or not able to be open and
transparent and will get offened if corrected thats alot of the
problem in todays world also.
Spelling and grammar are some other major problems in today's world.
... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
Hey there Gamgee. I'm new here, but looking at some of your
messages, it appears that you take your tagline seriously.
Over the years, I have known people who lived behind the Iron Curtain, as
well as that have fled Vietnam and mainland China. As you may have noticed, when you mention such people to any of your "friends" that hope for our country to become socialist/communist, they will downplay their experiences, as if it was their fault that they did not "enjoy" life in such a place.
Some of them must live in a dreamworld.
A dreamworld / another reality / or not able to be open and transparent and wi
get offened if corrected thats alot of the problem in todays world also.
Indeed it is. Another part of that problem is being afraid to offend those types of folks. Instead our society has taken the path of accepting bad behavior, that was past unacceptable, and then for some unknown reason expecting good to come out of it.
hosIndeed it is. Another part of that problem is being afraid to offend
types of folks. Instead our society has taken the path of accepting bad behavior, that was past unacceptable, and then for some unknown reason expecting good to come out of it.
I agree and it's not helping anyone
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